Most overrated "broken" things?

[Caliban]

Potion of Haste, Whirling Frenzy (Unearthed Arcana Barbarian variant).

Sorry to ask, but what is VoP?

Haste stacks with Spiked chain flurry, as does Whirling Frenzy (in those campaigns where it's allowed, which doesn't include any I've played in).

VoP is "Vow of Poverty" from BoED (Book of Exalted Deeds). I had a Psion take it in my home game. I found it less "broken" than Psionics (something else that is hotly debated).

Warlocks aren't broken per se, it's just that having an endless source of dispel magic or dimension doors gets tiresome for the DM. Any magical trap or lock will eventually be dispelled or bypassed unless you make the caster level unreasonably high. If Warlocks have been around as long as the other classes, you have to change some of the base assumptions of the NPC's in the campaign to take their abilities into effect. Not all DM's want to deal with that.

 

[SadisticFishing]

Oh, duh, I actually figured that out before I posted then forgot :X

I actually have a player in my campaign with VoP (and two other Vows, he's an Apostle of Peace), and the book seems... overpowered, random fighter crits him for 134, but ooh! Fails a will save, his weapon breaks... He also has 42 AC at level 16, which is really nothing shabby. BoED seems very strong

As for overratedness, I find that sorcerors are a lot weaker than wizards, and Warmages... Lots of people don't want to prepare spells, but knowing every spell is a pretty big bonus!

Hrm, just wondering - at the person that said warblade is weaker than crusader, are you sure? I've seen both in play, and maybe I'm just a more capable strategist or something, but the warblade seems much more powerful.

"and have a RP restriction that is like handing your worst enemy a loaded gun and a note that says "kill me"." ... huh?

 

[Moon-Lancer]

"and have a RP restriction that is like handing your worst enemy a loaded gun and a note that says "kill me"." ... huh?

I see it more like the worst enemy hands YOU the gun, but because your exalted you cant kill him while is unarmed.

vop is pretty strong but I think people forget the 2 feats part. the two feats imho allow vop to be stronger then a equalivent character with magic items. I didn't play long enough to be able to confirm if vop tops off at level 13 or not.

 

[AllisterH]

Hrm, just wondering - at the person that said warblade is weaker than crusader, are you sure? I've seen both in play, and maybe I'm just a more capable strategist or something, but the warblade seems much more powerful.

Staying power.

The thing about a warblade is that it is flashy. It does have lots of move and "insert name here of high level manoeuver" that can do damage, but the thing is, if you have a decent selection of splatbooks (PH2 + Complete Warrior + Any other melee book including Tome of Battle), and a halfway competent reader (don't even need to be an optimiser) most barbarians and fighters can do as much damage as well.

The crusader though, is more subtlely powerful. Even if you factor out the cheese that is White Raven Tactics, a crusader makes the ENTIRE party more powerful. Sure, the crusader isn't going to be the one who did the most damage compared to the warblade or even the swordsage in an encounter, but a well-built crusader will most assuredly be the last man standing.

This is what a lot of people don't realize as it isn't that obvious on paper. If the crusader only say does 10 pts of damage compared to a barbarian or fighter or warblade doing 20, at first glance, it would appear the crusader is weaker but a lot of people forget that the crusader was I) probably responsible for about 5 pts of the other guy's damage AND II) the crusader is probably at near max HP while everyone else might be near death.

It pretty much is impossible to take a crusader down via the HP route thanks to having the usual d10 warrior HD but throw in Devoted Spirit discipline AND steely resolve AND the Die hard feat means that beating the crusader the HP route is an exercise in frustration. It also has the standard Good Fort save meaning just like regular old fighter, it isn't bending over to poisons and spells like that.

What truly makes it powerful though is that even though it has a "weak" Will Save, trying to actually target that is ALSO a waste of time. (You got to get past the boost from their Divine Grace ability, plus the ability to re-roll once per day PLUS Mettle, good luck there).

Throw in their "don't need to waste time recovering manoeuvers" and you get what many of the *players* (not just people that read the text and optimise on paper) think is the strongest martial adept class by far.

Someone said it best on the WOTC's boards. You know that old "paladin in hell surrounded by dead demons with more coming" picture? That was no paladin. That was a crusader.

 

[Tetsubo]

Since when was D&D based on reality?

No, seriously.

Vast segments of the game are actually based on reality. Humans, animals, armour, most weapons, most social structures, money, etc. In fact I would say there are far more aspects of reality in the game then fantasy... so when I see something so blatantly stupid as the Spiked Chain, it stands out...

 

[Patlin]

Warlocks are not broken in bang-boom-pow sort of way (unless "broken" can encompass excessive weakness as well as strength), but they can be problematic due to the temptation to spam their invocations endlessly.

If you can call it a "temptation" to use the primary distinguishing ability of your class!

As Cameron pointed out, if you are required to make a saving throw and succeed, you are aware of it. Charm spells tend to result in hostility from potential victims, at least in my campaign. A Warlock (or other caster) who used charm with obnoxious consistency would be likely to see his portrait on flyers in many civilized area, and would probably be attacked if he was recognized.

 

[Felon]

Dude, the creature *knows* you tried to hit it with a compulsion effect. I don't know about you, but if someone tries that on me, you can bet I am going to turn hostile...!

Well, if that's explicitly stated in a rule, please cite the reference.

The issue I was addressing was the eventuality where A) the creature isn't sophisticated enough to know what a compulsion effect is, and B) the likelyhood that the warlock would just keep spamming charm on him. If it's a non-combatant NPC, it's like spamming dispel magics on an iinanimate object. I explicitly added a caveat about not being able to charm a creature that makes its saving throw for 24 hours.

 

[Chu Li]

If anyone ever thought MTs were powerful, then take a look at the Arcane Hierophant from RotW:
MT plus 3/4 BA, d6 HD, strong Fort & Will saves, continued Kick-ass arcane companion progression (familiar + animal comp. lvls stack in one creature for both purposes AFAIK), continued wildshape and some special features (some cast-through-animals-&-plants-trick, I think) and 4+ skill pts

Style-wise, I really like that class but in play it's just an MT+ for druids (who hardly seem in need of any further augmentation).

Just in case nobody's noticed yet: D&D's power-lvl has increased over the last few years.
That's cool, to a certain degree. I want my PCs (and some NPCs) to perform cool stunts.
What I'm concerned with is the internal power disparities. Some classes/feats/features disrupt other players' (or possibly the DM's) fun. Of course, there's almost always the potential for abuse, but certain classes/feats/features make it easier to pull freak-stunts that make other characters look like useless whimps.
Yet, I think that abuse of the rules/munchkinism is mainly a player problem. Although D&D practically invites you to do it, I still believe it is the decision whether you succumb to that invitation or not that either makes you a mature player or a type-of-player-I-don't-like-so-much. IMHO fairness to your fellow-players and the DM is an integral part of any (RP-)Game. Unless, of course, you just want to WIN the damn game and bruise some egos in the process.

Yours sincerely

Chu Li

 

[Stalker0]

Warlocks can be a bit strong at the 1st-3rd level range. Eldritch Blast is very competitive at this level, and unlimited use is very nice when everyone's resources are low. But past that they seem just fine to me, become weak at high levels.

 

[Caliban]

Well, if that's explicitly stated in a rule, please cite the reference.

Succeeding on a Saving Throw

A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.