D&D 5E Most powerful class in 5e

[FormerlyHemlock]

Can someone with better theorycrafting than me explain why Paladin/Sorc is so much better than straight Paladin? I can understand at level 20 taking those Sorc levels would be better, but let's say I'm a Vengeance Pally, I think I'm doing better sticking straight Vengeance until at least lvl 11.. If you take Sorc at lvl 7 you're delaying great things like Haste.

On phone so short shrift:

The question is not so much WHY they are better so much as when and at what. Sorc adds lots of defensive and utility even with only small amounts. I've got a Paladin of Devotion 6/Wild Sorc 4 who leans on Sorc for Shield, Quickened Mirror Image, Twin Shield of Faith, and Quickened Web to fulfill his role as party tank/defender. Tides of Chaos is great too for saves, plus he's Lucky. DPR isn't really his job, and if he's going out with only one other PC against a double-Deadly bunch of Hobgoblin Captains and a Warlord, he's happy if he can do 8 points of damage with his sword while the monk does 12 with her bow, as long as Blur/Web + Shield kept him from taking damage in return, at a low cost in SP.

It sounds like you're going for damage output instead, so sorc has little to offer you until after Paladin 11 is online.

Different builds for different roles.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I'm still not totally convinced by necromancer over other types of Wizard, what makes you place it so highly on your list?

Sick amounts of raw power and the best concentration economy in the game. I have a warlock 2/necromancer 8 who rolled good stats and took Inspiring Leader and Spell Sniper as feats. He can spend 6 SP and a few hundred gold and get 140 HP of AC 16/18 skeletons (35 HP x4) doing 40 HP of damage per round on a hit, and still have his own Concentration and actions free for Web (to give skels advantage, when he has lots of skels along) or Conjure Minor Elemental for extra meat shields who can also paint targets in the dark with their Dancing Lights, giving the skeletons advantage hit them, or just Hex + EB himself, or Expeditious Retreat + EB if he's solo without any skeletons or PC buddies along. But the skeletons alone are a dominating force in any environment where they can be deployed, i.e. military conflict not diplomatic, non-hostile environment, transportation not restricted. He is the party's primary damage dealer thanks to them.

You could do the same with hirelings but you'd have to pay them and attend funerals when they get killed. Skeletons can often just be reanimated instead.

 

[pancakemaster808]

Sick amounts of raw power and the best concentration economy in the game. I have a warlock 2/necromancer 8 who rolled good stats and took Inspiring Leader and Spell Sniper as feats. He can spend 6 SP and a few hundred gold and get 140 HP of AC 16/18 skeletons (35 HP x4) doing 40 HP of damage per round on a hit, and still have his own Concentration and actions free for Web (to give skels advantage, when he has lots of skels along) or Conjure Minor Elemental for extra meat shields who can also paint targets in the dark with their Dancing Lights, giving the skeletons advantage hit them, or just Hex + EB himself, or Expeditious Retreat + EB if he's solo without any skeletons or PC buddies along. But the skeletons alone are a dominating force in any environment where they can be deployed, i.e. military conflict not diplomatic, non-hostile environment, transportation not restricted.

Fair enough, that sounds pretty powerful, although my GM loves fireballs, so I'd be worried playing with so many summon dudes. Doesn't detract from the build's overall power, just the meta(?) I'm currently playing.

I'm also glad other people like taking 2 warlock levels to get their charisma in extra damage on their EB =P.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Fair enough, that sounds pretty powerful, although my GM loves fireballs, so I'd be worried playing with so many summon dudes.

A fireball that hits a clump of eight skeletons out of twenty total is still unlikely to do 35 HP even if they all fail their saves, so it takes multiples to score a kill. Ultimately skeletons are expendable anyway--I'd be more concerned if PCs or human hirelings got Fireballed.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I played a necromancer and there is something you're forgetting: you need to have those corpses and bones around to summon the undead. That's hardly a given. Especially skeletons since they need bones, not a dead body.

And the quickest enemy that shut me down? Helmed horror lol. I was poison/necrotic specialized, so basically useless

 

[epithet]

My first house rule when I started running 5e was "No multiclassing."

At low levels the most powerful character is the one whose player knows how to leverage its background. The acolyte who can gain the help of a local temple, the soldier who can rely on his erstwhile brothers in arms, the noble who can demand respect from the town guards and charm common folk, etc.

At high levels it will be the character whose player is best able to think of creative ways to use class abilities and special properties of magic items in ways the DM (and therefore the NPCs) had not thought of or prepared for.

This is not an MMO. Your numbers might help or hinder, but they don't tell the story.

 

[Celtavian]

It requires level 18 for a 9th level slot, although it can be done with lower level slots for slightly less damage. The way you do it makes use of hex, bestow curse, hold person/monster, and scorching ray (that's the 9th level spell slot).

You can drop the hold spell to save yourself a round of setup, but that does reduce the damage to 30d6 10d8.

One round of damage is nothing. Plenty of classes will beat those numbers easily with none of the required setup. Bards are not great damage dealers. There are better spells than using a 9th level slot memorization for meteor swarm or trying for scorching ray. Sounds like you're theory-crafting and haven't experimented much with some of the sick damage combos in this game other classes can bring to bear.

Bard's very versatile. Great in a group. Other classes are far better at bringing the pain.

 

[Dausuul]

What do I think? Don't do theorycrafting when trying to find an answer. Actually play the classes in typical adventures.

This times a million.

What I have found is, that there aren't a single class in 5e that can be considered the most powerful. While some classes seems very powerful on paper, the way that the DM runs his/her games, is the deciding factor, so the most powerful class will be different from table to table. For example the number of encounters per day, the ease of getting short and long rests, how certain rules are interpreted (like hiding), and how easy access the players have to spell scrolls/NPC spell sellers, will be a big factor in how a class plays at a given table, not to mention whether or not you use optional rules like multiclassing and feats.

This also. At a table where you have less than the recommended 6-8 encounters per day, full traditional spellcasters (wizards, clerics, druids, bards) will be very strong. At a table with more than that many encounters, classes like warlocks and fighters do better.

 

[Ashkelon]

This times a million.


This also. At a table where you have less than the recommended 6-8 encounters per day, full traditional spellcasters (wizards, clerics, druids, bards) will be very strong. At a table with more than that many encounters, classes like warlocks and fighters do better.

DO note that it is really hard to have more than 6-8 encounters per day. Your HP is a limited daily resource, and you only regain half your max HD per long rest. Most games I have been in have seen the fighter types running out of HP by 3-5 encounters per day. It is a myth that the fighter can fight all day long.

Also note, that the suggested 6-8 encounters per day includes encounters of all ranges. The easier encounters will benefit the spellcasters usually however as they tend to be filled with many low CR monsters, which are easily killed by AoE.

In my experience, the warrior types are good at getting big numbers and killing single targets, while the casters have a much more dramatic and powerful impact on the battlefield.

 

[pancakemaster808]

One round of damage is nothing. Plenty of classes will beat those numbers easily with none of the required setup. Bards are not great damage dealers. There are better spells than using a 9th level slot memorization for meteor swarm or trying for scorching ray. Sounds like you're theory-crafting and haven't experimented much with some of the sick damage combos in this game other classes can bring to bear.

Bard's very versatile. Great in a group. Other classes are far better at bringing the pain.

I know one round damage isn't the only measure of class power, but it is fun to measure, which classes do you think can beat it easily?

I'd also be very interested hear about those other classes that can bring the pain.