Motw: Shifter (and Shapechange spell)

[Vecna]

The meaning of "familiar with" is:
1. Seen?
2. Studied (using some Knowledge skill)?

 

[Allister]

The meaning of "familiar with" is:
1. Seen?
2. Studied (using some Knowledge skill)?

well, given that the new wildshape rules explicitly mention that a druid in a temperate forest can't shapechage into a polar bear, I would say it is safe to assume that the druid has to actually see a polar bear before he can assume that shape.

 

[Vecna]

But if I have a Wizard with a lot of knowledges 10+ (Arcana, planes, nature, religion...) couldn't I have studied a lot of creatures reading books?
I don't remember the right name (Beastchasers?), but in T&B there is a group of wizards dedicated to the study of creatures.

 

[ZYG]

The quote from the fixed poly spell "Nor can you turn into a variant form of a creature. For example you can turn he subject(sic) into an ogre, but not a half-dragon ogre." is somewhat misleading in my opinion. You cannot poly yourself into a half-dragon no matter what, because it has the type dragon, and you cannot assume any form with type dragon.

I think what the spell istrying to say, is that if you can normally turn yourself into form/shape "A", that does not automatically imply you can turn into form/shape half-A/half-something else.

As a counter example to the half-dragon ogre, a celestial ogre (if such a thing existed in your campaign) would be of type large giant, and you should be able to poly yourself into it.


As to the HD advanced creatures, I was really talking about size advanced ones. If a large gargoyle is just an older medium gargoyle, then you should be able to poly into a large one just as easily as into a medium one. Of course, you'd turn into an average medium or an average large one. If you cannot do this, then using greater wild shape to turn into a dragon (shifter level 7) would be really limited because you would only be able to assume one size category of dragons.


- Z Y G

 

[Tempuswolf]

The quote from the fixed poly spell "Nor can you turn into a variant form of a creature. For example you can turn he subject(sic) into an ogre, but not a half-dragon ogre." is somewhat misleading in my opinion. You cannot poly yourself into a half-dragon no matter what, because it has the type dragon, and you cannot assume any form with type dragon.

ZYG,

There is no restriction on changing into a dragon using polymorph self, only outsiders, undead, and constructs are prohibited by Type.

That being the case, there is nothing misleading about the half-dragon ogre example in the spell description. It is prohibited specifically because it is a variant form, namely a template.

 

[ZYG]

Originally posted by Tempuswolf
There is no restriction on changing into a dragon using polymorph self, only outsiders, undead, and constructs are prohibited by Type.

Oooh, don't I look stupid now....


You seem to be right about the dragon thing. However, there doesn't seem to be a variant form limitation on greater wild shape, which is the actual topic of this discussion.

oh well


- Z Y G

 

[DireBear]

Not meaning to side track the thread, but what are the prerequisites for the shifter PrC?

 

[Tempuswolf]

However, there doesn't seem to be a variant form limitation on greater wild shape, which is the actual topic of this discussion.

The variant form limitation is grandfathered into greater wildshape since wildshape still has it, pg. 11 MotW top of the second column.

Not meaning to side track the thread, but what are the prerequisites for the shifter PrC?

Alertness, Endurance, 3rd level spell casting, alternate form attained by racial/class ability or spellcasting.

 

[Vecna]

Is Alter Self enough? Otherwise Polys are 4th level spells, which would require 4th level arcane spells as prereq.

 

[Tempuswolf]

Is Alter Self enough?

Yes.