Mounted Archery Balanced?

[Clint]

Hi.

I run a game, and one of my players is using a tactic that's perfectly legal, yet I'm finding it to be unbalancing.

"Rider" is a bow-specializing fighter (a Monte Cook ranger, actually), and he likes to fight from the back of his Heavy Warhorse. When an enemy approaches to melee him, his most common combat tactic is to fire from the back of his mount, while having the mount fight the foe in melee.

Let me run through a typical round:

1) Rider makes a Ride check for guiding Warhorse with his knees (two hands required for bow), at DC 5.
2) Rider makes a Ride check for fighting with mount, at DC 10.
3) Warhorse executes Full Attack action, getting "2 hooves +6" (1d6+4 dam each) and +1 bite (1d4+2 dam).
4) Rider executes Full Attack action with composite longbow, firing multiple shots, frequently at the one the horse is fighting. (This character has Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot as well)

At 6th level, his Ride is at high enough (+10: 4 ranks, +4 Dex, +2 synergy from Handle Animal) where he isn't going to fail frequently.

This is an incredible tactical advantage. If the enemy attempts to circle the horse to get at him, the horse gets an AoO, and his primary attack is "2 hooves +6", therefore you use them both (always the primary attack). Plus, Rider can just change his facing next round, putting the horse between him and the enemy again as a 5' step, right?

For a mid/low level campaign, this is unbalancing. Unless he gets swarmed, he's a tank.

This works just about as well for characters less than 6th level, too.

Best part: Rider doesn't even need the Mounted Archery feat, which is only for firing on the move.

Am I getting any part of this wrong? Any ideas on how to balance, if not?

Thanks.

[edit: added italic text above because I forgot to ]

 

[Artoomis]

A couple of flaws in this otherwise excellent strategy.

1. How long will the horse survive? The horse is NOT advancing in hit die, so this tactic becomes less viable the more experienced the ranger becomes.

2. The 5' step may be used to make a diagional step from in front of the horse to the side of its front square, allowing a diagonal attack on the rider in the back horse square. No AoO, and a full attack is still allowed.

An obviously better tactic for the ranger is to use his horse to stay out of melee, firing from horseback. Of course, this way he would only get one attack most rounds.

 

[Jairami]

So sleep, hold animal, blind, scare, or use any other wonderful low level spell on the hapless mount. Or shoot it/stab it.

An archer is much more effective from cover or on a light horse (spd 60' instead of 50'). But even that is easily countered with missile weapons or spells.

 

[Artoomis]

Oh yes, and one more thing. PC groups tend to build up a reputation and, if they have left any survivors or practice their combat tactics when they can be observed, , their tactics start to become known. This means some groups will actually be prepared to meet the PCs and have counters ready for their usual tactics.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

If the enemy attempts to circle the horse to get at him, the horse gets an AoO, and his primary attack is "2 hooves +6", therefore you use them both (always the primary attack).

This is common misconception.

If a crature's primary attack is with 2 weapons (hooves in this case), and it is listed as 2 attacks (as it is in this case), on a standard (ie AoO) attack, the creature only gets to attack with one of them.

Also....

I think there's a rather easy solution to this. Have a couple of ogres surprise him and his mount. They have reach, which means that they can hit him over his mount, and they can do enough damage to get his mount out of the picture if they really want to.

In a couple of levels I don't think you'll have a problem with this anymore because a) the horse doesn't have enough HP to stand up to higher CR stuff and b) the damage with it's hooves will be chump change to more powerful creatures.

--Basher Spikey

 

[Clint]

A couple of flaws in this otherwise excellent strategy.

1. How long will the horse survive? The horse is NOT advancing in hit die, so this tactic becomes less viable the more experienced the ranger becomes.

2. The 5' step may be used to make a diagional step from in front of the horse to the side of its front square, allowing a diagonal attack on the rider in the back horse square. No AoO, and a full attack is still allowed.

An obviously better tactic for the ranger is to use his horse to stay out of melee, firing from horseback. Of course, this way he would only get one attack most rounds.

Thanks for the reply.

1) The horse will survive for 30hp. Long enough for a few full-round actions. And like I said, we have a low/mid level game.

2) I think you're mistaken. The square you start from is unthreatened, but when you move through a creature's threatened area (even with a 5' step) you trigger an AoO regardless. So your diagonal move within the horse's threatened area triggers the AoO.

Rider does try to stay out of melee, but the problem comes when some melee tries to come to him.

 

[Artoomis]

Re: Re: Mounted Archery Balanced?

This is common misconception.

If a crature's primary attack is with 2 weapons (hooves in this case), and it is listed as 2 attacks (as it is in this case), on a standard (ie AoO) attack, the creature only gets to attack with one of them.

Also....

I think there's a rather easy solution to this. Have a couple of ogres surprise him and his mount. They have reach, which means that they can hit him over his mount, and they can do enough damage to get his mount out of the picture if they really want to.

In a couple of levels I don't think you'll have a problem with this anymore because a) the horse doesn't have enough HP to stand up to higher CR stuff and b) the damage with it's hooves will be chump change to more powerful creatures.

--Basher Spikey

We agree again.
-- Agreeable Artoomis

 

[Crothian]

A five foot step never results in AoO. Also, wasn't the Bastard sword (or more to the point Claymore) designed to take out a horse thus leaving the rider helpless?

Personally, I'd have the enimies attack the heck out of the horse. Also, have all the battles been in the wilderness? This tactic won't work in a dungeon or even in some cities. It's a good, sopund tactic, but like all tactics it's not fool proof. Fool are to ingenius.

 

[Victim]

The mount only gets one hoof attack on partial/standard/AoO attacks. The 2 attacks are listed together because they share the same stats, jsut as a PC dual weilding shortswords might have attacks listed as "2 short swords +5. Dmg, 1d6+2"

First of all, try killing the mount. Unless the archer bought Barding, which is pretty expensive, the mount's AC won't be that great. Its saves and HP won't be the greatest either. Pin cushion it with arrows, attack with spells, poke with reach weapons.

Also, one can't take a warhorse everywhere.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Re: Re: Re: Mounted Archery Balanced?

We agree again.

-- Agreeable Artoomis

lol

--Inspirational Spikey