Mounted Charge [was this legal per R.A.W.?]

[frankthedm]

it is open to argument, but the mount based feats tend to be specific what benifits the mount gets.

 

[Lord Morte]

It is not useless, it is just not as useful as you hoped it was. It is by RAW a strait line continuation of a charge, which is a strait line move to your foe. It seems pretty simple that the onus is on the charger to get through the foes space. Just because you hate the overun action,that does not mean you deserve more abilities from a feat.

The trick is that a straight line move to your foe isn't necessarily a straight line move through your foe's space. If you line it up right, you can charge up, attack and keep moving past, because the enemy is diagonally adjacent to the line of charge. And this is difficult to follow so here's a diagram or two.

Diagram One: The character (C) can attack the enemy (E) and continue along the line of charge (indicated by -).
+ + + + +
+ + + E +
- C H - -

Diagram Two: As a lance is a reach weapon, the character threatens the spaces marked T.
T T T T T
T + H + T
T + C + T
T + + + T
T T T T T

If the closest space from which the character can attack is C and the opponent is in the top-left corner of the diagram, you may still be able to get past without moving through his square on a diagonal charge, depending on how many squares sideways you move for every square forward you move.

So its really a question of your starting position and the line of charge.

Consider jousting. The knights will charge towards each other on parallel lines, swinging thier lances SIDEWAYS to hit their opponent.

CHARGE
First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent.

It doesn't that you must move straight towards the opponent, just to the closest space from which you can attack. A very important distinction.

Isn't anyone else confused by my explanation? I'd hate to be the only one
I've used Ride-By Attack myself to splatter mind flayers from houseback.

 

[Greylock]

Its true that strictly by the raw its very hard to do a ride-by-attack charge, as a charge is meant to move you into the closest square to hit your opponent, and to continue that straight line in most cases would involve going through him which isn't possible... but there are some situations where it works out, such as if your 50' south and 5' east of an enemy.. your closest square is 50' due north, and a straight line takes you north past him.

And that's exactly how my char's attack was executed. Which was why I was wondering where the overrun talk was coming from. The closest square can be to the enemy's front or to his side. I have a mental picture now of jousting knights, who instead of attacking from each others right, just slam dead on into each other at x2 the speed of a galloping horse, crunching each other like a beer can.

Well, fudge, regarding the SA option. Wasn't thinking it through with the pre-req's.

And if this character seems twinked, Frank, remember, there are only two things he excells at: swinging a sword and riding a horse. He is rather suseptible in some ways, and doesn't get all that many opportunities to show off his riding skill. [Last game excepted, where quite frankly he showed off just for the hell of it to impress some horse-traders.]

 

[frankthedm]

Diagram One: The character (C) can attack the enemy (E) and continue along the line of charge (indicated by -).
+ + + + +
+ + + E +
- C H - -

EDIT------end edit In 3.5 the rider "occupies" the mounts 10x10 foot space.

Bad news;
Measuring Distance
Diagonals: When measuring distance, the first diagonal counts as 1 square, the second counts as 2 squares, the third counts as 1, the fourth as 2, and so on.
You can’t move diagonally past a corner (even by taking a 5-foot step). You can move diagonally past a creature, even an opponent.
You can also move diagonally past other impassable obstacles, such as pits.
Closest Creature: When it’s important to determine the closest square or creature to a location, if two squares or creatures are equally close, randomly determine which one counts as closest by rolling a die.

A strict reading of the RAW means that if there is an option for a single diagnal move on a planned charge a die determines which square you will wind up making the attack from, not a choice to pick the square that lets you keep moving.

 

[Greylock]

A strict reading of the RAW means that if there is an option for a single diagnal move on a planned charge a die determines which square you will wind up making the attack from, not a choice to pick the square that lets you keep moving.

OK, so I mark a square, 60 feet from my char, announce that I am making a charge from Point A, where I stand, to Point B, where I point. Commence charge. Upon reaching the point I determined most beneficial, making the most tactical sense, the DM declares that there are three squares I could have attacked from, and all are next to the BBEG, so are equally close. Rolls 1d6/2. Oopsy, turns out the randomly generated "closest" square was on the opposite side, say, between the BBEG and BiggerBEG? I don't think so.

Say our Druid decides to cast Entangle in front of the BBEG, not directly on him. The square behind the BBEG is equally close to the BBEG, so should she have to randomly roll to decide whether the Entangle is in front of or behind him?

 

[Felix]

Say our Druid decides to cast Entangle in front of the BBEG, not directly on him.

Spells are targeted at grid intersections, and not the middle of squares, and even then, the Caster gets to choose which intersection he targets.

I understand this analogy was written to show the absurdity of another's argument, but the analogy doesn't hold in the first place, and so doesn't make that other argument look absurd.

For simplicity's sake, I'd say that on a Ride-by-attack:

• you move so that the target comes within reach, but you don't have to move directly towards him

• the mount does not get to make an attack at any time when using this feat.

• you can choose to overrun if you want to, but it is not necessary.

And for the other things, Greylock, I would have serious problems letting you:
Wake up
Stand up
Detect the enemy
Mount
Draw
Charge/Ride-by-Attack

...And all in a single round. I know a lot of those things are Free Actions, but the DM has the option to limit the number of free actions taken in a round. Mostly I have a problem with how you wake up... it generally takes a while for me to get my bearings and clear my head when I wake up, even when I'm trying to become as alert as possible.

Oh, yeah... you make a ride check to stay on the horse. The horse is the one who has to jump the log, and so the horse is the one who has to make the Jump check. And seeing how it's a High Jump instead of a Long Jump, the DC is going to be a heck of a lot higher than 15.

Besides, doesn't the charge action explicitly preclude charging over rough terrain regardless of if you can jump over it?

 

[frankthedm]

OK, so I mark a square, 60 feet from my char, announce that I am making a charge from Point A, where I stand, to Point B, where I point. Commence charge. Upon reaching the point I determined most beneficial, making the most tactical sense, the DM declares that there are three squares I could have attacked from, and all are next to the BBEG, so are equally close. Rolls 1d6/2. Oopsy, turns out the randomly generated "closest" square was on the opposite side, say, between the BBEG and BiggerBEG? I don't think so.

Say our Druid decides to cast Entangle in front of the BBEG, not directly on him. The square behind the BBEG is equally close to the BBEG, so should she have to randomly roll to decide whether the Entangle is in front of or behind him?

Because 3.5 is stuck to a grid, moving in a strait line to your foe creates that situation. If there was no grid, then the shortest line would be used to move to the foe.

In the 3 legal square situation, the person not trying to to bend the rules, picks the middle most square since that is [most likely] in essence the straitest path. Unfortunatly, since there are people who will try and squeek every advantage by, another method must be present. the random roll is elegent enough for that.

spell casters are free to choose whatever squares are in area for thier spells [and most area spells "center" on corners],

 

[Lord Pendragon]

It is not useless, it is just not as useful as you hoped it was. It is by RAW a strait line continuation of a charge, which is a strait line move to your foe. It seems pretty simple that the onus is on the charger to get through the foes space. Just because you hate the overun action,that does not mean you deserve more abilities from a feat.

Frank...are you telling me that you believe Ride-By Attack was meant to force an Overrun check every time it's used?

I suppose I'm guilty of assuming here. It has never occurred to me that perhaps the feat was not meant to allow exactly what it would seem to, to attack while riding by your foe.

Myself, i keep this stuff mentally prepared to stop min maxed twinks dead in thier tracks.

Another question: Do you truly believe that the OP's scenario is a "min maxed twink"?

 

[FireLance]

Not WotC Errata, but 3.5e FAQ (funnily enough, it's in the section on Monsters, page 34 in the 12/10/2004 version):

When using the Ride-By Attack feat, you must conduct your charge so that you move in a straight line towards the closest square from which it is possible to attack your chosen foe, so long as it is a square that allows you to attack and then continue on in the straight line of the charge. You must still attack your foe the moment you reach that square. Although the feat description doesn't say so, you and your mount must move at least 5 feet after you make your attack to get the benefit of the feat. This is a special rule for charging when using the Ride-By Attack feat. (emphasis mine)

So, Ride-By Attack is pretty much as useful as the OP hoped it was. If there are a few squares from which you can attack and continue on in the straight line of the charge, you must attack from the closest. However, if there is a closer square from which you can make an attack, but it does not allow you to continue on in the straight line of the charge, you do not have to charge to that square.

However, even if your mount has Spring Attack, it can't attack on a ride-by attack. You have to use the Charge action to use ride-by attack, and Spring Attack requires you to use the Attack action. It may be possible to create a feat that allows you to charge, attack, and continue moving (Charge-By Attack, prereq: Dex 15, BAB +6, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack), but that would be a house rule.

 

[Greylock]

Thank you for the lucid replies, Firelance and Pendragon.

And yes, the "twink" talk was getting under my skin. The char is a 6th level fighter with only one piece of +1 gear, and his feats and skills came about naturally. There was little char planning of any kind before 4th level. No one ever said our party rogue was twinked just because he put all his combat abilities into the shortbow.