Movement, falling damage, Dim Door

[Ridley's Cohort]

IMC, teleportation spells reset inertia.

IMNSHO it is more cinematic if you allow "Superman catches Lois falling from the top of a skyscraper" events by ignoring momentum issues.

Generally speaking, mixing real world physics and the literal description of a spell while ignoring the intended functional purpose of the spell leads only to grief.

Shall we discuss Shrink Item powered firearms while we are here?

 

[Deset Gled]

Please note my post above, from the FAQ.

This FAQ ruling was discussed earlier, here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=175343&page=1&pp=40

IMO, this is one of the stupidest FAQ rulings ever. Momentum is dependent on reference frame. When you move from one lattitude to another on a globe, you are going to be dramatically changing your reference frame.

Magic and physics don't mix. Don't try and munchkin your way into being able to cause ridiculous damage by applying physics if you aren't prepared to have the same laws of physics turn you into a greasy smear when you teleport from England to the equator.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Since the duration of the spell is Instantaneous, the earth has not moved, nor has the any time passed. If you want to create your own "cans of worms", go for it, it's your campaign.

Well, what you are doing then is selectively ignoring physics when it favors you. You have a different real-space momentum when in England than you do when at the equator. Thus, if the momentum is maintained, when you teleport from England to the Equator you will die. Trying to maintain that realism in D&D is flatly ludicrous, so don't try to do the same for other situations, especially attempt instagibs. You will have a huge hassle with it just doing things like teleporting to/from a ship, plane shifting, etc. Huge. Don't underestimate the impact or, worse, do what you're doing and selectively ignore all the more difficult situations.

 

[Brace Cormaeril]

This FAQ ruling was discussed earlier, here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=175343&page=1&pp=40

IMO, this is one of the stupidest FAQ rulings ever. Momentum is dependent on reference frame. When you move from one lattitude to another on a globe, you are going to be dramatically changing your reference frame.

Magic and physics don't mix. Don't try and munchkin your way into being able to cause ridiculous damage by applying physics if you aren't prepared to have the same laws of physics turn you into a greasy smear when you teleport from England to the equator.

I would recomment Brian Greene's "Elegant Universe". Or maybe a high-school physics class, lol! Any use of teleport magic, if "inertia is reset", would trip the teleporter, as the earth under the caster's feet is moving really fast, and the caster is now "not moving at all". Like jumping out of a car. This is stupid. And since the caster moves to his new destination "Instantaneously", he is neither passing through space or time, as Einstein concluded the two are intrinsicly linked. The caster therefore maintains his initial velocity. In addition, since, per the Wizards FAQ, as the caster maintains their "on earth" speed, they are not suddenly:
1.) burned to death "reset inertia"
2.) slammed to the ground as the earth's rotation,1000 mph, comes into contact with their movement of zero

If I wanted to munchkin me up some damage, I don't think I would do so in such a way that dealt an equal amount of damage to me. I don't think name calling is allowed on this forum. You may recant you statement by editing your post.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

By resetting your inertia I mean placing the character auto-magically where it was he wanted to be with no attempt to even bring fundamental physical laws into play ... you're traveling a bazillion mega-miles per second, cast Teleport, and land perfectly safely in Bangalore at a stand-still with nary a hair out of place. That it's really pretty much impossible, or at least highly unlikely, is totally ignored, because the other option creates huge headaches, loopholes, exploitations, and time-consuming arguments.

Physics takes a vacation, Magic takes over.

But, since you seem to be seeking people to agree with your assessment of it: You have my blessings. May archons guide your character's Death From Above, Er, Oblique Angle! Print out this portion of my post and show it to your GM.

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"Works just like he says. 20d6+1d8 ... to the FACE.
-- a guy on the internets

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--fje

 

[Dracorat]

Physics takes a vacation, Magic takes over.

That's my view on magic as well. If it could be explained by physics then its not magical.

 

[anon]

My, and other's, suggestion was to set one's momentum, not inertia, equal to 0 in relation to the surface upon which one appears. This eliminates all issues of varying speeds/momentums, messy math, and (perhaps sadly in the OP's opinion) falling/casting/smashing attacks.

If one goes with the FAQ and OP's conception of the spell, how will one decide which momentums to conserve and which to reset? It seems a convenience (in this case) to only pick the falling momentum, and ignore the other momentums one might have (e.g planet's rotation, vehicle's motion).

For example, if a caster uses Dimension Door (after making a Concentration check) from a fast moving (let's say 25 mph) horse to a fast moving ship going in the other direction (also at 25 mph) does the caster arrive on the ship deck for an instant, only to fly backwards at 50 mph, smashing things along the way? How much damage does the caster take?

yoda says: messy and slow, this approach is.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Dimension Door and other Teleportation spells ignore the normal physics of location and time, alllowing for instant movement, or translocation taking no time, depending on your view. It is easiest to consider that the spells move you and give you a new momentum of 0 in regards to the surface you arrive at.

This is how I handle it.

 

[Felix]

FAQ ruling creates headaches and involves mathematics that may involve a slide rule and computing rotational velocities of non-Earth terrestrial bodies in an RPG.

House Rule ruling creates simplicity and internal consistency.

Ruling contrary to the FAQ is often not House Ruling.

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You may recant you statement by editing your post.

While the use of "munchkin" is indeed frowned upon, this sort of line is not appreciated either.

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In the Magic v Physics title bout, I'd put my money on Magic in the 3rd. No falling damage but what is incurred after you appear out the other side of the Dimension Door.

 

[Deset Gled]

I would recomment Brian Greene's "Elegant Universe". Or maybe a high-school physics class, lol!

...
This is stupid.
...

I don't think name calling is allowed on this forum. You may recant you statement by editing your post.

First, I'm sorry if my use of the word "munchkin" was insulting to you. But I'm pretty sure that telling me I need to go back to school to understand this thread and calling other's oppinions stupid is a bit worse.

Any use of teleport magic, if "inertia is reset", would trip the teleporter, as the earth under the caster's feet is moving really fast, and the caster is now "not moving at all". Like jumping out of a car. And since the caster moves to his new destination "Instantaneously", he is neither passing through space or time, as Einstein concluded the two are intrinsicly linked. The caster therefore maintains his initial velocity. In addition, since, per the Wizards FAQ, as the caster maintains their "on earth" speed, they are not suddenly:
1.) burned to death "reset inertia"
2.) slammed to the ground as the earth's rotation,1000 mph, comes into contact with their movement of zero

Secondly, I really don't understand where any of this is coming from. For starters, I never stated that inertia is "reset", and I have no idea what that means. Inertia is a property of mass and velocity, and velocity is a property of reference frame. Your velocity cannot be zero in all reference frames, so I don't understand how it can be "reset".

Third, slamming in to the ground at a very high speed when you teleport is exactly what can result from the FAQ ruling. Consider teleporting from one point on the globe to the point on the exact opposite side of the globe, at noon. With reference to the sun, you are going to be standing upright, and have an extremely powerful momentum in one direction due the earth's rotation. When you teleport to the other side of the world and maintain your reference to the sun, you are now upside down. And, if you maintain your initial velocity, you are moving with a speed double that of the earth's rotation with respect to the ground. Better hope the ground is smooth, or your face is in for a rough ride. On a smaller scale, you can consider a similar case with a pair of boats moving in opposite directions with momentum relative to the earth. It both cases, you still haven't taken into account the earth's rotation around the sun, the sun's spin with respect to the rest of the galaxy, or the galaxy's movement away from the center of the universe.

The real problem with the FAQ ruling is that momentum is a property of reference frame, and there is no way you can choose a static reference frame that will maintain momentum in some cases (preserving the falling damage given as an example) without maintaining it in all cases (which starts the slipperly slope of the example I gave above). The only way to make magical movement work without it being ridiculously dangerous is to just say "it's magic", and let it be.