Movie Sequels

[Bedrockgames]

Yeah he has a very bad reputation for treating people badly. Him and Bill Murray hated each other. Of course they could have never have re-cast him in Vacation or Fletch in the 80s, and he had a few good movies in the late 70s. But besides Funny Farm and Cops and Robbersons, his movie career seems to have flagged pretty bad since the mid 90s. Not much I remember seeing him in after except Community, which didn't end well for him as him and Dan Harmon didn't get along. Theres rumors of a Community movie in development but its unlikely he'll reprise his role.

Can you spot Chevy? Supposedly he wanted to be a musician before acting and even played in Steely Dan for a short stint.
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He definitely hit a rough patch in the 90s. I am sure some was dumb luck, some was a simple failure to re-invent himself for the 90s (the 90s were pretty hard overall on 80s acts---and granted he wasn't purely an 80s act, but his films were largely 80s movies). Bill Murray managed to find other types of roles and was in highly memorable 90s comedy.

As far as Chevy and Vacation movies go. I still think the first one is the best. Christmas Vacation is also solid, but I honestly think there reason for its longevity is primarily that it was a Christmas movie that aired every Christmas so people saw it growing up (it is deserved longevity but I think that is why people know that one more than the first vacation film). I remember seeing it in the Theater actually and not being hugely impressed (which might be on me, but at the time I just remember thinking it was okay). I eventually came to like it a lot more after repeat viewings during Christmas.

Those early 80s movies he was in had a vibe and Chase had a vibe. I think the stuff is still funny but his films had a small portion of sleaze to them that was normal for that early 80s period (you just expected to see a certain amount of sex and sexual humor in screwball comedies from that time). Also I think Chevy Chase could sometimes be a bit much. I do remember liking him as a kid, but even in a movie that I recalled enjoying as a kid, like Funny Farm, there were moments where I wished he would stop mugging so much and doing certain things for the camera (whereas I never had that issue with Bill Murray, he had a bag of tricks too but I found his bag of tricks charming and funny, whereas Chase could get on your nerves).

 

[R_J_K75]

Arguably, more recently they have perhaps lost focus on the secondary genre choices for their movies, which may be part of why folks are losing interest.

For me its just the sheer scope of the MCU. Between the movies (which they have begun to introduce lesser-known characters) and the streaming shows it's just over exposure. I think this is why people are losing interest. I feel the same way about Star Wars now too.

 

[R_J_K75]

I remember seeing it in the Theater actually and not being hugely impressed (which might be on me, but at the time I just remember thinking it was okay). I eventually came to like it a lot more after repeat viewings during Christmas.

I saw it in the theater when it came out too and while funny it wasn't anything new. I'll watch it if I'm at a relative's house and it's on during Christmas time I'll watch it, but if Im by myself and its on, I skip right passed. Speaking of sequels, I think European Vacation gets a bad rap, it wasn't perfect but wasnt any worse than any of the others, Even Vegas Vacation was pretty good but suffered from the 8-year gap in between movies.

...Bill Murray, he had a bag of tricks too but I found his bag of tricks charming and funny, whereas Chase could get on your nerves).

I always liked Bill Murray better. He is another one who has a reputation for being a jerk on set. I know him and Harold Ramis had a falling out during the filming of Groundhog Day and they never spoke after that until shortly before Ramis died, which they eventually buried the hatchet. Murray also seemed genuine and looked like he'd be a lot of fun to hang out with.

There's a really good documentary on Bill Murray called Bill Murray stories: Life Lessons Learned From a Mythical Man. It's worth watching.

 

[Umbran]

(which they have begun to introduce lesser-known characters)

This should be irrelevant. The bulk of movies that aren't sequels are introducing you to characters you didn't know before!

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This should be irrelevant. The bulk of movies that aren't sequels are introducing you to characters you didn't know before!

Indeed. If the movie could stand on its own two legs, it really shouldn't matter whether a character is well-known or largely novel. The characters of Guardians of the Galaxy were far more obscure than, say, the Fantastic Four, but they've been financially and critically vastly more successful. Whereas the relatively limited success of the first Captain America and Thor movies, despite those being some of the biggest non-X-men/Spidey Marvel characters should tell us something about whether that really matters or not.

I think a lot of Disney/Marvel's more recent issues have boiled down to failing to make convincing cases for why we should care about or be excited by various new characters - they've just been taking it for granted.

 

[Umbran]

Whereas the relatively limited success of the first Captain America and Thor movies, despite those being some of the biggest non-X-men/Spidey Marvel characters should tell us something about whether that really matters or not.

Well there's other things going on for Cap and Thor..
In 2011:
April: Thor
May: Pirates of The Carribean: On Stranger Tides
June: Transformers: Dark of the Moon
July: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part 2
August: Captain America: The First Avenger

So, basically, Thor and Cap were released outside the main summer movie season, which was dominated by three billion dollar movies, all of which were parts of series people were invested in.

In that situation it would be hard for anyone else to perform well.

 

[MGibster]

I thought Pirates of the Carribbean was a great movie but the next two sequels were very, very bad.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Well there's other things going on for Cap and Thor..
In 2011:
April: Thor
May: Pirates of The Carribean: On Stranger Tides
June: Transformers: Dark of the Moon
July: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part 2
August: Captain America: The First Avenger

So, basically, Thor and Cap were released outside the main summer movie season, which was dominated by three billion dollar movies, all of which were parts of series people were invested in.

In that situation it would be hard for anyone else to perform well.

Good context though some very juvenile "Watched too many Carry On movies as a child" part of me smirked at the last sentence given we were discussing Cap and Thor!

(To be real, I wasn't intending to do down either movie - just to point out the value of the characters is limited - a better example might be Captain Marvel, who isn't exactly well-known even in Marvel circles, yet made an impressive 1.1bn despite the film being somewhat forgettable (Larson does a good job in the role - she rarely misses - but it's just not the most exciting or focused movie). I don't think that was because it was Captain Marvel or because of Larson's star power - which is akin to that of Evans when Cap came out - imho it's because Disney/Marvel had a specific formula which people were enjoying and the film fit well within it.)

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I thought Pirates of the Carribbean was a great movie but the next two sequels were very, very bad.

On Stranger Tides is the third sequel, and much worse than the two direct sequels, so if you didn't like them, definitely avoid. Somehow the fourth sequel, Dead Men Tell No Tales is worse still.

Personally I felt like the first and second sequels (which had broadly the same characters as the original PotC) were "Decent" and "Not great" respectively, but by Dead Men Tell No Tales we'd definitely reached what I'd call "very, very bad".

The third and fourth sequels are particularly weird because they're so "snake eating its tail", with the latter being a literal attempt to recapture the feel of the first movie, an attempt that I would say is an abject failure. It's barely watchable. I'm not sure why it was so difficult for them to come up with fun plots for undead pirate movies, honestly, but it seems to have been a real challenge.

 

[Umbran]

Good context though some very juvenile "Watched too many Carry On movies as a child" part of me smirked at the last sentence given we were discussing Cap and Thor!

Cap and Thor had had no exposure to speak of outside of print comics at that point. If you weren't reading comics, they weren't a big deal yet in the broader movie market.