D&D 5E Moving out of concealment to attack - when is stealth broken?

[Stalker0]

If you have a 20 in dex and expertise in stealth with a +3 proficiency (+11 total) you can reasonably expect to suceed at stealth about 80% of the time.

I think you underestimate how bad most monster's perception are in the MM, a lot of creatures have a 11-13 passive perception.

 

[Li Shenron]

1) As soon as they first move out of the darkness. None of their attacks get advantage.
2) The first attack gets advantage, then they lose stealth.
3) Both attacks get advantage, then they lose stealth.
4) They maintain stealth the entire time

I usually rule 1)

The PHB clearly mentions that when you move out of hiding they usually see you, but the DM may allow advantage under certain circumstances. I can allow it if the players provide some convincing evidence of those circumstances such as another character doing something specific to distract the target.

Note that the situation can be different if you don't come out from hiding. That depends how you are hiding. If you're hiding as under concealment (invisible, darkness, heavy foliage) you're not coming out of it and so you don't lose the unseen condition. You do give away your location (which most DM interpret as losing the hidden condition) as soon as your first attack hits/misses but you are still unseen.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

In this particular case, I tend to rule #2 - with successful stealth check. My informal rule is that if you can manage to get within 10 feet of a SINGLE enemy, you can step out and make a single melee attack before losing stealth. Exceptions may exist for creatures like beholders that have wide-angle if not 360 degree vision. Stealth is still generally best used with ranged attacks.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think you underestimate how bad most monster's perception are in the MM, a lot of creatures have a 11-13 passive perception.

That does leave a tier 1 rogue with stealth expertise a 20-30% chance of failing to hide from them though. They’re quite likely to succeed, but far from guaranteed.

 

[Flamestrike]

A common scenario. A character is currently in darkness and hidden. The character moves 20 ft towards an enemy, and after the first 10 ft of movement, is no longer in the darkness. They then proceed to make two attacks. They complete their move by moving back into the darkness.

At what point does the character lose the benefit of stealth?

1) As soon as they first move out of the darkness. None of their attacks get advantage.
2) The first attack gets advantage, then they lose stealth.
3) Both attacks get advantage, then they lose stealth.
4) They maintain stealth the entire time

As a general rule, the instant they leave the darkness they are no longer Hidden.

However a DM may allow a hidden creature in those circumstances to remain hidden, sneaking up 'behind' a distracted foe (DM's call).

 

[Flamestrike]

In order to make a melee attack from Hiding, you need to be adjacent to the enemy (and hidden) when the attack is made. You dont reveal yourself until after the attack is resolved (hit or miss) unless you have the Skulker feat, and miss.

A DM can rule that you can sneak up 'behind' a creature (although creatures are assumed to be looking all around in most circumstances, obviously that assumption is not universal).

Nothing against the rules for the DM to announce 'The Ogre has his back to you and is focused on the Barbarian' enabling you to [take the Hide action] if you were not already hidden, and sneak up behind the Ogre in his blind spot, and attack from hiding.

 

[neogod22]

Hiding in battle would be pretty frickin' useless if it was #1 and Rogues would never do it. Rogues are supposed to get Advantage every turn so it should be at 2 or 3. You need to spend an action to hide (bonus for a rogue, standard for everybody else) so even if you move back into darkness you're not considered hidden. They can't see you but they know that's where you are so they won't be surprised on the following turn.

Why isn't that spelled out in the rulebook?! I don't have my book handy but I find it really stupid if it's not. That's not, in any way, a corner case, nor is it something opened to interpretation like the very concept of 'hidden' seems to be.

Rogues shouldn't try and hide in battle. Even the PHB says hiding fails automatically if someone can see you. This is why they also get sneak attack when there is an enemy next to their target. People need to understand, HIDING IS NOT INVISIBILITY.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Hiding in battle would be pretty frickin' useless if it was #1 and Rogues would never do it. Rogues are supposed to get Advantage every turn so it should be at 2 or 3.

No, Rogues are supposed to be able to Sneak Attack every round, and "you don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it" if you want to Sneak Attack. That's an order of magnitude easier than getting advantage. However, there's also now the Steady Aim optional feature if your party is all ranged attackers.

Hiding doesn't "need" to work reliably in combat at all. It "needs" to work when you want to be not seen or heard, such as when you're avoiding a combat encounter entirely. It doesn't need to work when you want to set up an "ambush" less than 6 seconds after you "hid" less than 5 feet from where you very obviously just were when you did the exact same thing less than 12 seconds ago.

You need to spend an action to hide (bonus for a rogue, standard for everybody else) so even if you move back into darkness you're not considered hidden. They can't see you but they know that's where you are so they won't be surprised on the following turn.

Why isn't that spelled out in the rulebook?! I don't have my book handy but I find it really stupid if it's not. That's not, in any way, a corner case, nor is it something opened to interpretation like the very concept of 'hidden' seems to be.

Because the game's hiding rules are, "it works when it makes sense for it to work and it doesn't work when it doesn't make sense for it to work and the DM is the final arbiter."

The rules have the "hidden attackers get advantage" provision in spite of the "stepping out of hiding ends hiding" provision because there is a potential to attack from a hidden position when you don't have to step out and reveal yourself at all. For example, if you're in a darkened structure during the day and shooting a bow at a target outside in bright daylight through an open window, you don't need to step out of your hiding place to fire a shot. You don't have anything in the way, either. If you're in dense foliage or behind concealment of some kind (e.g., minor illusion), you can also probably make a shot without stepping out of hiding at all, too.

Hiding doesn't need to work to allow you to repeatedly hide in the same spot round after round to get advantage on your attack roll and to avoid any retaliation against the exact same creatures that are supposed to be as sapient as you are.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

At what point does the character lose the benefit of stealth?

...when the DM decides, "Ok, if you do that, he'll notice you, so no Stealth...unless you make a [insert roll or something]".

To me, that's the BEST answer. To others...it's probably pointing at the book and saying "See! Look! Right here! It says [insert specific english word, ignoring context...or respecting context...or re-interpreting said context to fit their particular stance]".

The end result is always the same: The DM decides "Ok, if you do that, he'll notice you, so no Stealth...unless you make a [insert roll or something]".

My 2¢.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Charlaquin]

I see a lot of claims about what rogues are and aren’t “supposed to” be able to do every round. I just want to jump in and say, rogues aren’t “supposed to” be able to do anything. They require two rolls to hit and deal sneak attack damage per turn to keep up with other classes in terms of DPS. These rolls can come from advantage, two weapon fighting, or even an effect like haste that lets them attack an extra time. But just because they fall behind in damage if they don’t get these things doesn’t mean they’re “supposed to” get them. Trying to figure out how best to get them is part of the rogue’s gameplay.