Muhlatimic Dragons

[Khisanth the Ancient]

What book are you thinking of including the new dragons in? And would they be 4E or something else?

Anti-dimensional dragons sound really cool...

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

So to make sure I understand this...

the Cosmic (dimensional) dragons are going to be...

Entropy - Void (Black Hole) Dragon -- like the Bestiary, or redesigned?
Fate / Material Plane - Nexus (Wormhole) Dragon-- moved down from Nehaschimic
Time / Transitive Planes - Cometary (Time) Dragon -- just like in the Bestiary
Matter / Elemental Planes - Planetary (?) Dragon -- is that the one based off King Ghidorah?
Spirit / Outer Planes - Stellar (Solar) Dragon -- the Seraphim??? but that doesn't have age categories...
Thought / Far Realm - Lunar (Quasar) Dragon -- that was the Typhon one, right?

Is that how it would work?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

What book are you thinking of including the new dragons in? And would they be 4E or something else?

Anti-dimensional dragons sound really cool...

Mulling over an idea at the moment for a 4E Epic Bestiary on Kickstarter this summer. I just realised I have over 50 epic monsters between about 50-100% completed (because of the stupid way I designed the Vampire Bestiary to begin with) and just sitting there. So the pdf writing would be finished before the Kickstarter would begin and the funding would mainly be so I could commission the art.

...some really cool ideas for stretch goals too.

 

[Upper_Krust]

So to make sure I understand this...

the Cosmic (dimensional) dragons are going to be...

Entropy - Void (Black Hole) Dragon -- like the Bestiary, or redesigned?
Fate / Material Plane - Nexus (Wormhole) Dragon-- moved down from Nehaschimic
Time / Transitive Planes - Cometary (Time) Dragon -- just like in the Bestiary
Matter / Elemental Planes - Planetary (?) Dragon -- is that the one based off King Ghidorah?
Spirit / Outer Planes - Stellar (Solar) Dragon -- the Seraphim??? but that doesn't have age categories...
Thought / Far Realm - Lunar (Quasar) Dragon -- that was the Typhon one, right?

Is that how it would work?

More or less yes (on all that). A few things are still in flux and obviously there will be changes when things get converted to the new system as well.

Plus all of the above assumes we'll ever get to see ALL of them anyway. Certainly one or two of them could crop up in a future project.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

There are all sorts of non-True (non-age category) dragons at the non-epic levels: the drakes, linnorms, Dragon Turtle etc. So what would higher-category (Epic, Cosmic etc.) 'other' dragons look like?

I could see a 'Dragon Asteroid' with an iron-nickel shell as the sort of Epic/Cosmic equivalent of a Dragon Turtle. Its breath weapon might be a "railgun" stream of magnetically-hyperaccelerated iron bits?

And maybe a dragon whose body was a cosmic string, and whose wings were domain walls (2-D flaws in spacetime, basically the 2D equivalents of cosmic strings)?

 

[FieryDragonLord]

I see some types of epic+ non-true dragons. I would see asteroid work for an Epic/Cosmic Dragon Turtle. Maybe the Epic/Cosmic Linnorms could be based on types of planets.
Rocky Planet Linnorm - Epic ?
Life Planet Linnorm - Epic?
Gas Giant Linnorm - Cosmic ?
Also, since the former Lunar dragon might be Quasar instead, the Lunar name could be used for one of these.
Dragon Asteroid - Epic?
Dragon Moon - Cosmic?
Dragon Cosmic String? - Eternal?
For the drakes, I am not very sure. There could be drakes based on the dragons (Black Hole Drake, Quasar Drake,etc), or they could be based off the epic elementals (Undrake? Quintessence Drake?).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Compiled some (not even all) of my random 4th Edition 'leftovers' into one pdf and it looks like I have the guts of a 96 page Epic Monster book thats already about 50% done and dusted. So after I complete the Vampire Bestiary: Castle Dracula I'll finish writing this Epic Monster book and then (when the writings totally sorted) start a Kickstarter to commission the art.

Had an idea that maybe I could add a number of custom slots (maybe 10?) to the Kickstarter, where people could suggest monsters for me to design for them...and I design them.

For the Stretch Goals I was thinking that each time a certain stretch target was met I would add an even more powerful monster to the book.

Of course this is all just speculation at the moment.

But I am looking into selling softcover and hardcover versions of my books marketed on Lulu (the setup is a million times easier than RPGNow). I'll probably redesign the covers for the Epic Bestiary (3E) and Ascension (3E). Still worried about the 'missing' art in Ascension though (as a print product) and not sure I want to waste months finishing it (but I would fix all the known errata).

There are all sorts of non-True (non-age category) dragons at the non-epic levels: the drakes, linnorms, Dragon Turtle etc. So what would higher-category (Epic, Cosmic etc.) 'other' dragons look like?

I think what we have really missed out on is all the Dragon-spawn monsters for epic, cosmic, eschatolic and muhlatimic dragons. Lets just say I have a few ideas.

I could see a 'Dragon Asteroid' with an iron-nickel shell as the sort of Epic/Cosmic equivalent of a Dragon Turtle. Its breath weapon might be a "railgun" stream of magnetically-hyperaccelerated iron bits?

And maybe a dragon whose body was a cosmic string, and whose wings were domain walls (2-D flaws in spacetime, basically the 2D equivalents of cosmic strings)?

Love both those ideas, especially the Asteroid Dragon.

 

[Alzrius]

It'd be cool if one of those dragons (probably the quasar dragon) did something with exceeding the Eddington Limit. A point where luminosity becomes so great that it defeats gravity? How awesome is that?

"You can't go into the light; the light is actively pushing you away!"

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey amigo!

It'd be cool if one of those dragons (probably the quasar dragon) did something with exceeding the Eddington Limit. A point where luminosity becomes so great that it defeats gravity? How awesome is that?

"You can't go into the light; the light is actively pushing you away!"

Thats one of the coolest things I've read in a while. Puts me in mind of Rimmer's 'Hard Light Drive' in Red Dwarf.

 

[FieryDragonLord]

Hey Upper_Krust, if you do make the epic monster book, will it have the super-solo rules?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Upper_Krust,

Hey FieryDragonAmigo!

if you do make the epic monster book, will it have the super-solo rules?

Absolutely...in fact those rules are already in the current draft of the pdf I cobbled together.

At the moment (and this is extremely early) the book has the Super-solo rules (with examples), the Mega-size rules (with examples) and five themes each comprising 10 monsters* (each covering about 16 pages). So the book is looking to be currently 96 pages.

*Note that some (like Dragon entries) will have multiple stat-blocks.

The book would cover levels 21-39 specifically (although some variants might be in the high-Paragon tier).

Two ideas I have for the kickstarter are:

1. Suggest your own monster for the book (Limited to 10 total of variable ranks: 1 minion, 2 standard, 4 elite/npcs, 2 solos, 1 super-solo, 1 dragon). These monsters would need to be between Levels 21-39 (see #2. Stretch Goal). You only need suggest a name (and I'll design the rest), but conceivably your suggestion could be as detailed as you want (although there will be page space restrictions so no rambling multi-page biographies of NPCs). Suggestions would have to adhere to 4E GSL (no rude stuff) and copyright laws (no suggesting Superman or Galactus write-ups*).

*Conceivably you could say you wanted something 'like' Galactus I suppose. But I'd have to make it different enough to avoid copyright entanglements.

2. Stretch Goal - each time a target goal is met I will add an even more powerful monster into the book. The current highest monster is a Super-Solo Level 39 (Overgod). So my idea is to increase this by 2-3 each time (roughly). Of course that assumes stretch goals are met which is wishful thinking by me I guess.

My plan is to have the entire book (and at least 2 stretch goal monsters) written before I even begin the kickstarter - which is really more to fund the art.

The probable starting prices for the book will be:

- $10 - copy of finished pdf when the art is done (plus a copy of the pre-art pdf as soon as the kickstarter gets funded)
- $25 - softcover + pdf (and pre-art pdf)
- $40 - hardcover + pdf (and pre-art pdf)
- $60 - hardcover + softcover + pdf (and pre-art pdf)
- $80 - limited edition (something cool) + pdf (and pre-art pdf)
- $120 - limited edition (something very cool) + pdf (and pre-art pdf)

The problem I have at the moment is with determining the postage (for the actual books). So some of those prices may fluctuate and I may need to have something like "add $x for international shipping". I'm still researching this bit.

Another problem is where to set the initial funding mark. I estimate I need approx. 150 pdf sales (ie. $1500) to make things worthwhile and go ahead with comissioning the art. However, if I set the initial target goal at $1500 and I get 60 people buying the softcover version, I would reach $1500, but the overheads would be costing me half that or more. So I am wondering if you can fund a project based on the number of backers (150 needed) rather than the total amount of money? This gets further confused by the limited edition ideas wherein I'd generate more than the flat $10. If the project must be funded purely on a dollar basis then I might have to set the minimum funding goal to $3000 or thereabouts (but I'd like to keep it as low as possible).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

...actually scratch that Kickstarter idea off. I'm not sure its feasible. Its impossible to price the funding without pricing myself out of the realistic range. If I ended up getting a lot of requests for the softcover/hardcover version then I'd end up in debt unless I priced the funding at about $6000. Which is way too much for a niche-niche 4E product.

So instead my plan is to break down the epic bestiary into smaller parts (between 16-32 pages*) and sell those individually, THEN, when I get enough done (3-4) I can put those together as a sort of compendium (possibly even a hardback).

*32 pages is the minimum for a softcover print book.

At the moment, what I need to work out is:

1. Whether to add some (3-4) encounters to each (mini) Bestiary? I'll be doing a website update next week showing the Vampire Bestiary maps (they are looking good...as in official WotC type good). So that should give people an idea about them.

2. What order I want to release each (mini) Bestiary theme in? No point starting with the least popular monsters - although at the same time I also have to take into account which monsters are furthest along. So while I know most people just want to see ANY epic material from me at this point the immediate choices are (and the current likely order of release):

A. The Iron Tower of Dispater (Hell/Devil/Golem this may or may not be the first 'theme', would have the Super-solo rules)
B. The Anti-God Equation (Asuras/Giants/Elemental monsters, would also have the mega-size rules)
C. Caves of the Shadow Bat (Nosferatu/Shadowfell creatures)
D. Temple at the End of Time (Disir/Temporal monsters)

Those would probably be the first four themes that I'd collect in a hardcover. Every bestiary would include at least one dragon (probably also one golem or elemental) and at least one super-solo.

E. The Forest of Intestines (Feywild/Varcolac/Hecate theme)
F. Cavern of the Skulls (Kali/Abyssal/Undead theme)
G. The Prismatic Prison (Grigori/Fallen Angel/Sin theme)
H. ? (Pseudonaturals/Far Realm theme)

After that: Lucifer's Realm ("The Tenth Hell"), Abominations ("Children of the Watchers")...then Umbrals & Devoids (Half-Umbrals), Inevitables, Strigoi (Demon Vampires) & Orcus, Rakshasa, Intelligibles, Sirians & Entities, Angels/Quintessence, Daemons/Four Horsemen...maybe 1-2 others should cover everything (he says getting massively ahead of himself before even the first book is finished).

Of course I've put so much prep work into my epic (Against the Reptile God) adventure trilogy: The Serpent Riders - No Chance in Hell - The Black Pyramid that I'll still have to finish that at some point. But the first four mini-Bestiaries are further along.

Somewhere along the way I might get around to fixing all the 4E core classes and introducing Immortal Tier rules.

So we are probably looking at:

1. Vampire Bestiary: Mountains of the Cannibal God RELAUNCH (72 pages with Maps & softcover available)...in a few weeks (lets say end of April - although I do have a 5 day holiday in Portugal and Lens Replacement Surgery this month so thats a bit tight)
2. Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary: Volume One (3.5E) RELAUNCH (softcover version)
3. Vampire Bestiary: Temple of Death (with Maps & softcover available)...a few weeks after MotCG (end of May ish).
4. Immortals Handbook: Ascension (3.5E) - RELAUNCH (hardcover version)...pencil this one in; I still think I need to do more art for it. So its a maybe at this juncture...but I really want a hardcover of Ascension, so it WILL happen sometime.
5. Vampire Bestiary: Castle Dracula (with Maps & softcover available)...2 months after that (end of July)
6. Vampire Bestiary: Mountains of the Cannibal God for PATHFINDER (September ish?)...I'll see how that does before deciding to convert the rest.
7. Vampire Bestiary (Complete) - (216 page hardcover)
8. Epic Bestiary: Iron Tower of Dispater (32 page softcover; I don't think I would need more than 2 months per mini-Bestiary and thats starting from scratch...even I should be able to handle 4 pages a week if I don't have other things distracting me)
9. Epic Bestiary: The Anti-God Equation
10. Epic Bestiary: Caves of the Shadow Bat
11. Epic Bestiary: Temple At the End of Time
12. Epic Bestiary: Compendium 1 (the above four epic mini-bestiaries in a 128 page hardcover)

If I can get ALL the above done before next summer (June 2014) I'll be a VERY happy man.

 

[eduar]

Hi

Good luck with that U_K seems like a lot of work, I'll be waiting the relaunched of Immortals 3.5 and Vampire Bestiary for Pathfinder.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

Sounds great... but why not release Temple of Death before updating MotCG? Personally I'd much rather see a whole new set of monsters than just the maps... but maybe that's just me.

 

[FieryDragonLord]

This seems to be a good idea. It looks like you have it mostly mapped out. All of them sound interesting, but I am particularly interested in the temporal monsters, the Pseudonaturals, and the Intelligibles.

However, I agree with Khisanth on releasing Temple of Death first.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi

Hey eduar amigo!

Good luck with that U_K seems like a lot of work,

It helps to have most of it already half-finished.

I'll be waiting the relaunched of Immortals 3.5 and Vampire Bestiary for Pathfinder.

Not sure if I should add anything to the Epic Bestiary? Certainly the cover 'graphics' will change.

Ascension definitely does need more art. I don't want to release it with blank spaces (and its probably more work to go fixing all the paragraphs). As with the Epic Bestiary, the cover graphics will change - although the art will remain the same. I'll try and fix as much of the errata as possible.

Certainly the first VB will see a Pathfinder release (and again a big thanks to Khisanth since there is no way I could have handled that conversion myself). Hopefully they will do okay enough to warrant further such conversions.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again matey!

Sounds great... but why not release Temple of Death before updating MotCG? Personally I'd much rather see a whole new set of monsters than just the maps... but maybe that's just me.

Well, I never really wanted to release any of them without the maps. I know thats not why people are interested in my books, but I am convinced that 4E (tactical) encounters work FAR better with maps than without. In fact I suspect all the adventure stuff is pretty worthless WITHOUT the maps. I don't think people will grasp the nuances of the encounters and when you see the maps you'll understand "Oh thats what Krusty was trying to do."

Not that the encounters are especially brilliant (though I do think there are some gems amongst them), but they are interesting enough to warrant inclusion. I was sort of finding my feet with Mountain of the Cannibal God, but Temple of Death's encounters are shaping up to be very good (if I do say so myself) and I have been toying about with some early Castle Dracula ideas.

I really like the adventure formula of breaking stuff down into what you can do in one session (3 fixed plus maybe a random encounter). Also I try to think encounters through from the perspective of the villains/monsters to see how I can make things as difficult as possible for the PCs with as little (enemy) resources as possible...which is fun. Official 4E adventures just make things way too easy. DMs can always higher level PC groups if they want to have that 'easy' feeling, but I'd much prefer players to feel they can lose, keeps them on their toes.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there FieryDragonLord!

This seems to be a good idea. It looks like you have it mostly mapped out. All of them sound interesting, but I am particularly interested in the temporal monsters, the Pseudonaturals, and the Intelligibles.

I appreciate the interest. I'd like to do all the monsters NOW. But history tells us that my plans go astray as I keep adding and adding material. In fact I was actually just looking over the Iron Tower of Dispater* material and thinking well, I'd love to add three more devils types in there (and it was already looking like more than 32 pages - because of all his Dukes). So I need to be careful I don't fall into the same trap again.

*actually a cool story with this one surrounding Dispater's plan to take over the Hells.

However, I agree with Khisanth on releasing Temple of Death first.

Well, one of the problems is this. The adventure portion of Temple of Death is only half finished (under the old format). Once the maps go in, each encounter gets its own page. This changes things about a bit and each needs a bit of restructuring (its not as simple as a copy/paste). So technically, if I release Temple of Death before the maps are added I'd need to virtually rewrite (or at least restructure) the material again AFTER I put the maps in. Just seems like a bit of a wasted effort.

 

[eduar]

Not sure if I should add anything to the Epic Bestiary? Certainly the cover 'graphics' will change.

Hi U_K

well I remember that when you give us the advance of Godsend there was some stats already finished and ready to go, so you can include them . Also it will be cool to have the templates mentioned in Ascension.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

Well, one of the problems is this. The adventure portion of Temple of Death is only half finished (under the old format). Once the maps go in, each encounter gets its own page. This changes things about a bit and each needs a bit of restructuring (its not as simple as a copy/paste). So technically, if I release Temple of Death before the maps are added I'd need to virtually rewrite (or at least restructure) the material again AFTER I put the maps in. Just seems like a bit of a wasted effort.

Well, could you release a pre-version with JUST the monsters (no encounter/adventure at all) please ... just to get them out there? I'd be happy to buy it twice just to get the monsters early... these things aren't expensive anyway.

I don't mean to be pushy though...