Mules! -- Huh! -- What are they good for?

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Looks like most of you would have problems in my worlds then. Mounts and pack animals are absolutely necessary in order to carry the required gear over long distances.

I'd love to see a list of required gear. Seriously. PCs are usually quite self-sufficient even without magic (eg Create Food & Water).

I see a lot of Bag of Holding references, where are getting these handy items, if your DM is giving them to you, that's his fault, if you are buying them, well, let's just say that Wal-Magic doesn't exist in my world.

You know this is kind of insulting to some GMs. The game assumes you can spend your cash appropriately and if you don't do that, you're not playing the game the way it was designed. That's not a bad thing. I run Modern only (although I still play DnD) without magic items, so no Bags of Holding, and I still don't see PCs incapable of going through a jungle without a pickup truck, mules or hirelings.

I also fault you for claiming that players whose characters have access to magic items "don't need to think". That's another broad insult.

Hirelings can climb ropes and paddle canoes as well as carry stuff, mules can't.

It doesn't matter if PCs have access to Bags of Holding, mules aren't people. They're not adventurers. Many fun adventures just aren't mule-friendly, and why should they be? If Bags of Holding are crutches, then so are mules.

 

[Warren Okuma]

Looks like most of you would have problems in my worlds then.

Nah, I play druids.

Mounts and pack animals are absolutely necessary in order to carry the required gear over long distances.

What? Your PC's don't use magic to make food? Your PC's don't hunt?

I see a lot of Bag of Holding references, where are getting these handy items, if your DM is giving them to you, that's his fault, if you are buying them, well, let's just say that Wal-Magic doesn't exist in my world.

Then how do magic guilds make money? What do PC's do with magic items? If the PC's can sell magic items, they buy magic items. They can also make magic items.

Ok, true, if I were playing according to the suggestions in the PHB and the DMG, I would see no reason for mounts of any kind. Fly spells are faster, Teleports faster still and you don't have to feed either of them.

Yup. Time is important when you are an adventurer.

However, part of the purpose that DMs used to have was challenging players to think, instead of just handing out treats like a kindergarten teacher.

You challenge your PC's by forcing them to have mules? You think forcing them to buy miles is challenging? Weird. I think Tucker's kobolds and monsters that use their abilities is challenging them.

I blame the public school systems and their, everyone wins attitude.

I bet I do more TPK's than you do. I average three per campaign.

But seriously, in certain situations, yes, mules and mounts are awesome, in others, I would rather have a very large pack or maybe a Radio Flyer and some rope.

Mules are useful only from levels 1-6ish. After that, no.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Nah, I play druids.

What? Your PC's don't use magic to make food? Your PC's don't hunt?.

Its more than just food folks. I keep track of wear and tear, if you're heading into the great unknown, there are times you need extra stuff, and as for spells, often times, slots are used for other things that players deem 'more necessary' than housekeeping duties.

Then how do magic guilds make money? What do PC's do with magic items? If the PC's can sell magic items, they buy magic items. They can also make magic items..

What is this 'Magic guild' you speak of?

You challenge your PC's by forcing them to have mules? You think forcing them to buy miles is challenging? Weird. I think Tucker's kobolds and monsters that use their abilities is challenging them..

Cute. No, but the land itself is an adversary, a poorly prepared adventurer suffers, either by discomfort or eventualy death. I'm not going to try and explain all of the possibilities, but use your imaginations.

I bet I do more TPK's than you do. I average three per campaign.
Mules are useful only from levels 1-6ish. After that, no.

Irrelevant, and as I said, in certain situations, you just happen to have a cap, my current group of 8th level adventures just bought wagons, you figure it out.

 

[Creeping Death]

Mules are awesome

In a campaign I was in recently, going through the whispering cairn. My character had a mule. We loaded it with several days worth of supplies and made camp just outside the dungeon. We would go in, leave the mule out and come back at the end of the day.

We did bring it in one time. We had found the section that was flooded and underwater. We would tie a rope around one of the characters and tie the other end to the mule. Then the character would go into the water, if he ran into trouble he would tug on the rope. The others outside held their actions from round to round, as soon as the rope was tugged, we would slap the donkey and send it running down the hall and thus drag the character out faster than we could pull him out. It worked great for us.

Later,

 

[Thunderfoot]

<SNIP>
You know this is kind of insulting to some GMs. The game assumes you can spend your cash appropriately and if you don't do that, you're not playing the game the way it was designed. That's not a bad thing. I run Modern only (although I still play DnD) without magic items, so no Bags of Holding, and I still don't see PCs incapable of going through a jungle without a pickup truck, mules or hirelings.

I also fault you for claiming that players whose characters have access to magic items "don't need to think". That's another broad insult.<SNIP>

Having traveled personally through jungles and forests: without supply lines, yes, a form of pack is absolutely necessary, whether truck or animal or house, if you have let your players off the hook by not keeping track, then yes it is your fault. Secondly, I am an old school gamer that feels the suggested treasure tables were perhaps one of the biggest mistakes of the newest edition, secondly only to PrCs and letting players have too much control over the rules, but thats MO and you can ignore it if you wish, no biggie.

But having magic available for sale, outside of potions and scrolls, yeah, that's just plain dumb, where are all these high level wizards coming from, and if there are so many, runnning around then why does the world need the PCs? If the PCs are 'special' in that they are a rare breed, then the tools of their trade should likewise be rare. And, if it takes XP to make a magic item, then eventually these high level wizards that have nothing better to do but stock shelves full of magic items are going to run out of XP, and where are they going to get it from, adventuring. Now, by way of comparison, why hasn't your party wizard gone into business making items and selling them instead of adventuring, obviously the money is better and the work is safer... yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[jdrakeh]

Looks like most of you would have problems in my worlds then. Mounts and pack animals are absolutely necessary in order to carry the required gear over long distances. I see a lot of Bag of Holding references, where are getting these handy items, if your DM is giving them to you, that's his fault, if you are buying them, well, let's just say that Wal-Magic doesn't exist in my world.

Ditto. Mules and other pack animals play pretty much the same role in my campaigns as they did in the late 1880s (i.e., they were essential to long commutes, especially in arid climates).

 

[Storm Raven]

Looks like most of you would have problems in my worlds then. Mounts and pack animals are absolutely necessary in order to carry the required gear over long distances. I see a lot of Bag of Holding references, where are getting these handy items, if your DM is giving them to you, that's his fault, if you are buying them, well, let's just say that Wal-Magic doesn't exist in my world.

Your attitude just trains PCs to make sure they take the Craft Wondrous Item feat and make the gear that you are so stingy with.

 

[Roger]

I prefer bipedal pack animals. Big strong dumb half-orcs work just fine. They can carry lots, negotiate stairs and ladders, and they're cheaper than mules in the short run, which is probably all you'll need until the party can afford a bag of holding.


Cheers,
Roger

 

[Thunderfoot]

Your attitude just trains PCs to make sure they take the Craft Wondrous Item feat and make the gear that you are so stingy with.

Which is fine, I have no problem if they wish to do so. They used available resources to overcome a problem, kudos.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

"Don't mess with us, we've got a Pack Mule!" Became one of our 1E mottos. In one campaign we realized one day that our pack mule was actually the most powerful character in the party. He was carrying all the 'extra' magic items the party had and didn't want to lug around themselves. (1E, no place to sell all that stuff from various modules and homebrews.) At some point we inventoried what it was carrying and discovered he had maore magic items than the party as a whole! (And it had survived several attacks that should have killed it by sheer luck.) So after a while, whenever we ran into a tough looking encounter we trotted out our motto and watched our foes tremble in fear! (Ok, that part was done for laughs, but we were there to have fun, right?)