Mules! -- Huh! -- What are they good for?

[Warren Okuma]

So, are you saying nobody makes magic items? People make magic items for themselves to adventure, then the die. Does the magic items in your campaign go poof? Clearly not. And if the PC's can sell magic items, then there is a market for them, which means you can buy magic items? Or is your campaign so lame they can only sell magic items?

Having traveled personally through jungles and forests: without supply lines, yes, a form of pack is absolutely necessary, whether truck or animal or house, if you have let your players off the hook by not keeping track, then yes it is your fault.

Question, do you hunt?

But having magic available for sale, outside of potions and scrolls, yeah, that's just plain dumb.

I've made an enchanter who made money by adventuring and enchanting, what's so dumb about that?

where are all these high level wizards coming from, and if there are so many, runnning around then why does the world need the PCs?

Because there are alot of threats. Unless monsters are very rare in your campaign and are badly inbred there is a breeding population, at least for the more normal ones. There are a decent amount of high level characters around.

If the PCs are 'special' in that they are a rare breed, then the tools of their trade should likewise be rare.

But findable. Other items enchanted by characters like mine, or other adventurers in the past.

And, if it takes XP to make a magic item, then eventually these high level wizards that have nothing better to do but stock shelves full of magic items are going to run out of XP, and where are they going to get it from, adventuring.

Or police work (i.e. city guards), or bandit suppression, or war or game management or hunting. What no XP's for these activities in your campaign?

Now, by way of comparison, why hasn't your party wizard gone into business making items and selling them instead of adventuring.

I do that in the off season sometmes, why can I not do both?

obviously the money is better and the work is safer... yeah, that's what I thought.

No you didn't.

 

[Particle_Man]

My mule got eaten by a Purple Worm.

"Stellaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"

 

[Warren Okuma]

Its more than just food folks. I keep track of wear and tear.

What? No mending cantrip?

if you're heading into the great unknown, there are times you need extra stuff, and as for spells, often times, slots are used for other things that players deem 'more necessary' than housekeeping duties.

At low levels, yes, at level 8+, no. Not my group.

What is this 'Magic guild' you speak of?

1) Mage of the Arcane Order, Also called a "guildmage" it's a prestige class. These mages belong to a mage guild.
2) Red Wizards are wizards that run a country. It's another prestige class by the way.
3) Churches. How many churches are led by 1st level clerics in your world?

Cute. No, but the land itself is an adversary, a poorly prepared adventurer suffers, either by discomfort or eventualy death. I'm not going to try and explain all of the possibilities, but use your imaginations.

Again at low levels yes, not at high levels.

Irrelevant, and as I said, in certain situations, you just happen to have a cap, my current group of 8th level adventures just bought wagons, you figure it out.

You are not challenging them. How many horses have you killed? How many mules? I kill mules, I burn wagons, do you? How often?

 

[Hussar]

Honestly, while I would like pack animals to be part of the game, it really isn't going to happen. It's just far too easy to do without. Mending/create food and water gets by pretty much all the problems of travel, and carrying can be done pretty easily usually.

The problem is, mounts and pack animals are just too fragile to take on adventures. We don't cart around 3rd level commoners with us, which are about the same size as a mule or a pack horse hp wise. So, why would we take horses? The first fireball or breath weapon and all your horses are belong to us. Never mind the first undead attack which bolts all your pack animals all over the place. Never mind that PC's are generally traveling in places where you simply can't take a horse.

Thunderfoot mentions traveling in a jungle. I'm very, very certain that he never took a pack animal in a jungle. It would survive about three days and then die of any number of problems. I always find it funny that people cry about realism but haven't a clue what actually happens when you try to do what they advocate. Between the heat, bugs, water, disease, having to hack a much larger path through the jungle and a number of issues I can't think of right now, taking a mule in the jungle is about as stupid an idea as you can get.

Mules and pack animals need trails at the very least.

 

[hong]

Do you ever use mules or pack animals in D&D? I think in 28 years of playing D&D, I've maybe used one once. In contrast, when they were available in Dungeon Siege (a wildly underrated CRPG, IMO!), I loved them.

I'm thinking it's time to change that.

Are there any problems with pack animals in dungeons that I should be aware of? Any issues with them otherwise? Should I be sweet-talking my DM for a magebred mule instead or something?

Heathen! Next you'll be asking what you do with a ten-foot pole.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Heathen! Next you'll be asking what you do with a ten-foot pole.

I haven't had to ask that since I was 12 years old.

 

[Shadowdancer]

In our home game, I sometimes use a mule as character flavor.

In RPGA Living Greyhawk, I frequently use mules. Since we are forced to follow the incumbrence rules pretty closely, most of my characters don't have a high enough strength score to carry all the gear they want/need to take. And Heward's Handy Haversacks used to be pretty rare. So the best option was a mule -- or as my female bard calls it, "a purse on legs."

Now that Heward's Haversacks have been made Open Access, meaning anyone can buy one as soon as they have the gp, the reliance upon mules will be less. But until I can afford a Haversack, every one of my characters will buy a mule.

 

[haakon1]

Mules are inherently cool.

if you have let your players off the hook by not keeping track, then yes it is your fault.

I agree. Characters who are too stupid to remember to bring food or cold weather outfits, etc. deserve to get in a lot of trouble. Part of the fun of the game is equipping characters for the unknown.

Secondly, I am an old school gamer that feels the suggested treasure tables were perhaps one of the biggest mistakes of the newest edition, secondly only to PrCs and letting players have too much control over the rules, but thats MO and you can ignore it if you wish, no biggie.

But having magic available for sale, outside of potions and scrolls, yeah, that's just plain dumb, where are all these high level wizards coming from, and if there are so many, runnning around then why does the world need the PCs?

Nod, the mandatory treasure table (and WOTC saying DM's should be audited for compliance with it in one memorable advice column!) is one of many cheesy elements of D&D designed to make it overly safe (and thereby, less interesting).

As for the trading of magic items, I do have one, but I keep a tally of its inventory, rather than the "anything under 2000 gp" method. Basically, I set the initial inventory, occassionally drop, and occassionally add, based on the theory that some other adventurers are also buying and selling from it. But everytime they go in, there's still the +1 scimitar nobody wants, etc. I think of it as an FLGS' used collection, in a small town with few customers.

 

[hong]

Thunderfoot mentions traveling in a jungle. I'm very, very certain that he never took a pack animal in a jungle. It would survive about three days and then die of any number of problems. I always find it funny that people cry about realism but haven't a clue what actually happens when you try to do what they advocate. Between the heat, bugs, water, disease, having to hack a much larger path through the jungle and a number of issues I can't think of right now, taking a mule in the jungle is about as stupid an idea as you can get.

Mules and pack animals need trails at the very least.

Er, wha? Why won't there be trails in a jungle? There's animals bigger than mules that live there....

 

[haakon1]

Mules + jungles = dead in days? Nope.

Thunderfoot mentions traveling in a jungle. I'm very, very certain that he never took a pack animal in a jungle. It would survive about three days and then die of any number of problems. I always find it funny that people cry about realism but haven't a clue what actually happens when you try to do what they advocate. Between the heat, bugs, water, disease, having to hack a much larger path through the jungle and a number of issues I can't think of right now, taking a mule in the jungle is about as stupid an idea as you can get.
.

Read up on the CBI -- China-Burma-India campaign of World War II. You'll see a lot of pictures of Merrill's Marauders (US precursor of the Special Forces) and the Chindits (British mixed unit of India, British, etc. troops) using mules on narrow jungle tracks. Their mobility was all about mules and air drops.

Mules + jungles = dead in days? Nope.

Check this out if you're interested: http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/WWII/mules_of_mars.htm