Multiclass Idea

[Li Shenron]

Having two combinations which are mechanically different does have the benefit of more options for everyone. But yes it does introduce a little confusion to know which is better for your long-term character goals.

It might also make the creation of higher level PC a bit harder, if you have to factor in the order of those classes.

 

[The Shadow]

Looks like the basic idea I outline here is on the right track, though of course not necessarily the details.

In the Future of D&D seminar they said that each class would have a 'multiclass table' that ramps you up to the full power of the class.

The idea being that a 1st level character needs to be given everything they need to survive, but if you're multiclassing, you can already survive from your original class.

 

[slobster]

In the Future of D&D seminar they said that each class would have a 'multiclass table' that ramps you up to the full power of the class.

The multiclass tables sound interesting. I hope they aren't too different from the main classes, as we don't want them introducing too much complexity.

One thing I'd always wondered about was if it would be possible to accomplish a similar thing by feats? The multiclass tables are an attempt to stop "level-dipping", which is an attractive strategy because classes have to be "front-loaded" at level one so that you feel like you are playing something different and unique from the get-go. That means level one of each class is comparatively better than other levels of that class, and so we get the problem.

What if all that front-loaded stuff at level one was feats? So, for instance, a level one wizard just gets his spell book and cantrips, Arcane knowledge and level 1 spell slots are bonus feats.

When you choose a class at character level one, you get all the associated bonus feats for free. Thus a level one wizard would look the same as he currently does.

A rogue who multiclasses wizard, however, doesn't get those bonus feats unless he buys them as normal. So his multiclass dip doesn't reward him disproportionately. He can eventually build up to the same power that a pure wizard got from level one, but he has to spend feats to do it. He can also continue to level in wizard and ignore the bonus feats, meaning that his multiclass wizard will be a slightly watered down version of the class that nonetheless gets the full benefits from its later levels.

I do like the idea of multiclassing at 6th level and getting the 6th level benefit of whatever class you're dipping into. I don't know how that would interact with what I just talked about, if at all.

 

[slobo777]

One thing I'd always wondered about was if it would be possible to accomplish a similar thing by feats?

Classes in D&D are the biggest parts of character builds. The power level of feats is unfortunately a little too low to handle major class abilities.

This doesn't rule it out, but would require perhaps more complexity in specially-managed separate feats only available for multi-classing. Which makes it less attractive.

Not that I'm finding the specially-deconstructed-for-multiclassing classes that appealing either. But at least they have their eye on PC-to-PC balance.

Anything in there about balancing spellcasters? Losing out on maximum spell level was a big deal in 3E multi-classing for casters, and a big driver for many prestige classes which were effectively patches to multi-class concepts (e.g. Arcane Trickster was multi-class Rogue/Wizard done that once gained allowed you to keep a caster level worth having whilst progressing Rogue and Wizard abilities)

 

[GX.Sigma]

In the Future of D&D seminar they said that each class would have a 'multiclass table' that ramps you up to the full power of the class.

*barf*

Only upside I can see (and it is a big one) is that hopefully this means level-dipping can be finely balanced, which hopefully means that level-dipping won't be arbitrarily restricted. Sometimes I want my dude to have one level of rogue, one level of cleric, mostly fighter, some wizard.

Still, though, I can't help feeling that the "multiclass" versions should be the normal ones, and PCs can just be not very powerful until level 3 (and you usually start at level 3). That would be massively inelegant, but it would make the multiclassing system basically perfect IMO. Maybe I'll do that for my game; it seems like a pretty easy hack.

 

[Li Shenron]

Still, though, I can't help feeling that the "multiclass" versions should be the normal ones, and PCs can just be not very powerful until level 3 (and you usually start at level 3). That would be massively inelegant, but it would make the multiclassing system basically perfect IMO. Maybe I'll do that for my game; it seems like a pretty easy hack.

I agree, this would be easier overall, but I guess the designers are concerned that too many gamers will whine "my 1st level PC is unplayable" if they don't once again get more stuff than in the previous edition, the usual power creep.

OTOH I will consider myself satisfied if the same multiclass tables will be usable to create (yikes!) 1/3-level and 2/3-level characters, for a softer-complexity or grim'n'gritty campaign start.