Multiclass monks and unarmed strike

[Ranger REG]

I don't know. That would be too unbalancing, IMHO. The monk's class-level BAB and UBAB must have the same value at least for the first attack. That and the fact you have to take into account the monk's other abilities when performing unarmed strikes.

 

[Death]

... and if you would use higheb BAB advancement for monk, it would be too good to take level or two of monk and continue with fighter... I think monk is kind of ment to be single class + perhaps prc.

 

[Deset Gled]

This all makes sense for most cases, but what about the Drunken Master from Sword and Fist? It only states that the player can take unarmed attacks at -3 instead of -5. It says nothing about adding together monk levels and prestige levels (in fact , the player doesn't have to be a monk to take the class). Seems to be a bit ambiguous.

Anybody have some clarification for how this prestige class works?

 

[Zhure]

I didn't see anything under Drunken Master to indicate they may take iterative attacks at -3. Perhaps I missed it. Stranger things have happened today.

Greg

 

[Deset Gled]

Underneath the progression table there's a note that says:

Base Attack Bonus: Note that, like a monk, a drunken master makes unarmed iterative attacks at a -3 penalty, not the usual -5 penalty.

I for one find this to be rather intriguing. Especially because the Drunken Master has BAB progression as a fighter. I think that, theoretically, this means that someone could manage to get unarmed attacks at 20/17/14/11/8/5/2. More importantly, though, what happens if you only take one or two levels as a Drunken Master? Do you continue to get the better attacks, or do you only take them into consideration up the level that you took Drunken Master at, and take them under the same rules as multiclassing with a monk? I think that the latter seems rather odd, because it means that a person who takes one level of Drunken Master at level 20 gets a much better rate of attacks than someone who took one level at level 10.

 

[Shampoohorn]

Hmmm

Ranger REG:
I don't know. That would be too unbalancing, IMHO. The monk's class-level BAB and UBAB must have the same value at least for the first attack. That and the fact you have to take into account the monk's other abilities when performing unarmed strikes.

Ranger REG,
why do you think the monk needs to have the same value for first attacks. I can't think of any mechanics reasons why that would be the case. Flavorwise I think my idea makes as much sense as giving the monk a faster attack rate. Also, which other abilities do you mean? Improved trip? Stun? What's the unbalancing part.

Death: ... and if you would use higheb BAB advancement for monk, it would be too good to take level or two of monk and continue with fighter... I think monk is kind of ment to be single class + perhaps prc.

A PH monk2/fighter18 characters would have a BAB of 19/14/9/4 with all simple, martial, and monk weapons. The same character using my suggestion would have 20/15/10/5 UBAB and a 19/14/9/5 BAB otherwise. I don't see how that would be too good.

 

[Ranger REG]

Re: Hmmm

Ranger REG,
why do you think the monk needs to have the same value for first attacks. I can't think of any mechanics reasons why that would be the case. Flavorwise I think my idea makes as much sense as giving the monk a faster attack rate. Also, which other abilities do you mean? Improved trip? Stun? What's the unbalancing part.

Well, in addition to increasing unarmed damage (show me a normal medieval weapon that can be used by mostly medium-sized humans that can inflict 1d20 points of damage), the ability to bypass creatures' inherent DR, and other special unarmed abilities (e.g., Flurry of Blows), your version of UAB would make the monk incredibly powerful.

I mean forget about being a fighter who would do everything to upgrade his arms and armor and more than likely be subject to a weapon ban by a local law enforcement, the monk got it all in his body.

Now, if we use OA version of the monk with an expanded weapon proficiency list and an expanded "special monk weapon" list ... oy vey!

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Shampoohorn]

I'm not sure I disagree with you yet. Rather, I'm not seeing that a switch from 15/12/9/6/3 to 20/15/10/5 is imbalancing. Or that flurrying (13/13/10/7/4/1 vs. 18/18/13/8/3) is either. Etc.

I've got a spreadsheet around here somewhere that should shed some light. Until then, perhaps someone else will weigh in. Cheers.

 

[Shampoohorn]

OK, found my copy of Spikeyfreak's melee spreadsheet and Oy vey is right. Throught the middle part of the to-hit range a 20th level fighter hits about 20% more often per round and is between 20-30% more likely to hit on their first attack. In retrospect it' seems obvious.