Arkhandus
First Post
I don't see any reason to change the save bonuses from multiclassing.
For one example, look at the difference between dipping into Fighter for 1 or 2 levels, as opposed to dipping into Monk for 1 or 2 levels.
1 level of Fighter gives you proficiency in everything except exotic weapons, plus a bonus feat, a few skill points, a d10 hit die, +1 Base Attack Bonus, and +2 base Fortitude. A second level gives you all of that again except 1 less Fortitude and no extra proficiencies.
1 level of Monk gives you jack for proficiencies (you'll have better regardless of your earlier class, unless you were a Commoner or Wizard, and even then the Monk's proficiencies hardly amount to squat), gives you NO attack bonus, gives you a d8 hit die and slightly more skill points than the Fighter, a +2 to all saving throws, a binary choice of bonus feat that will only help you in unarmed combat, a minor unarmed combat benefit that amounts to being about as effective unarmed as you would be with a club anyway, a minor advantage with the quarterstaff that will rarely matter since it incurs a to-hit penalty and requires use of a poor weapon, and a minor AC bonus if you happened to invest in a good Wisdom score and generally go unarmored (which would mean you're likely a wizard or sorcerer, who would do better to just invest in good Dexterity and Constitution scores and not give up a level of spellcasting just for this).
A 2nd level of Monk would give +1 BAB and another +1 on saving throws, plus Evasion and another binary choice of bonus feat (though at least it might be of some use); better than the first level, but not enough to make it any better than a 2-level Fighter dip, just possibly more advantageous to particular builds, whereas the Fighter dip would still be better for other builds.
Unless you're not just dipping into Monk, those few unarmed/unarmored/flurry benefits will amount to squat 95% of the time for you. And if you're not just dipping, but rather intending to be a Monk primarily, then there's no cheese involved. A wizard or sorcerer would do better to invest in other ability scores besides Wisdom, since Will is already their highest save and they get little use out of Wisdom. So there's not much cheese in a Monk-level dip at the cost of spellcasting just for a piddly AC bonus you could get otherwise at a lower opportunity cost.
A 2nd-level Monk/Sorcerer or Wizard X would have such a poor or mediocre Reflex save that Evasion wouldn't even do them much good (unless they really jacked up their Dexterity at the expense of other abilities, but so what? Their HP are still likely to be crap after that).
Meaning that the only real benefits of a Monk level dip are basically the +2 on all saving throws and the chance to invest in Hide, Move Silently, Listen, or whatever as a class skill for one level. The fighter's proficiencies and bonus feat are worth more than that.
I've played multiclassed Monks before. It's nothing to write home about. In fact, they fairly well suck because of their loss of pure-Monk or pure-other-thing focus, giving them poor or mediocre offense and defense in both fields. One kind of mediocrity + another kind of mediocrity does not = awesome. The ONLY thing my high-level multiclassed Monk (he only has 3 levels of Monk, and a mix of levels in other classes) has going for him is high saving throws, because I emphasized Wisdom and Dexterity for him, and all of his classes give him high Fortitude while most of them give one other high save, plus the 3-level Monk base. The only thing my multiclassed Monk is good for is passing saving throws, and even in that department he isn't perfect. Everyone else outdamages and outlasts him; he just avoids most saving-throw-dependant effects, so he remains in the fight long enough to get beaten down proper-like for his mediocrity, rather than auto-stopped by a single spell early on.
And if he were a pure Monk instead, he'd have Spell Resistance by now and be even more spell-immune, yet he'd also have better combat ability in melee (granted, he'd be slightly worse in ranged combat than he is now, but that's all; he'd be tougher, faster, and a better tank-ish warrior if he had only stayed in Monk; but I develop my characters organically through play, not forcing them along a preplanned path, even though I often do have an initial plan that gets discarded if it doesn't mesh with how things have gone in-play).
For one example, look at the difference between dipping into Fighter for 1 or 2 levels, as opposed to dipping into Monk for 1 or 2 levels.
1 level of Fighter gives you proficiency in everything except exotic weapons, plus a bonus feat, a few skill points, a d10 hit die, +1 Base Attack Bonus, and +2 base Fortitude. A second level gives you all of that again except 1 less Fortitude and no extra proficiencies.
1 level of Monk gives you jack for proficiencies (you'll have better regardless of your earlier class, unless you were a Commoner or Wizard, and even then the Monk's proficiencies hardly amount to squat), gives you NO attack bonus, gives you a d8 hit die and slightly more skill points than the Fighter, a +2 to all saving throws, a binary choice of bonus feat that will only help you in unarmed combat, a minor unarmed combat benefit that amounts to being about as effective unarmed as you would be with a club anyway, a minor advantage with the quarterstaff that will rarely matter since it incurs a to-hit penalty and requires use of a poor weapon, and a minor AC bonus if you happened to invest in a good Wisdom score and generally go unarmored (which would mean you're likely a wizard or sorcerer, who would do better to just invest in good Dexterity and Constitution scores and not give up a level of spellcasting just for this).
A 2nd level of Monk would give +1 BAB and another +1 on saving throws, plus Evasion and another binary choice of bonus feat (though at least it might be of some use); better than the first level, but not enough to make it any better than a 2-level Fighter dip, just possibly more advantageous to particular builds, whereas the Fighter dip would still be better for other builds.
Unless you're not just dipping into Monk, those few unarmed/unarmored/flurry benefits will amount to squat 95% of the time for you. And if you're not just dipping, but rather intending to be a Monk primarily, then there's no cheese involved. A wizard or sorcerer would do better to invest in other ability scores besides Wisdom, since Will is already their highest save and they get little use out of Wisdom. So there's not much cheese in a Monk-level dip at the cost of spellcasting just for a piddly AC bonus you could get otherwise at a lower opportunity cost.
A 2nd-level Monk/Sorcerer or Wizard X would have such a poor or mediocre Reflex save that Evasion wouldn't even do them much good (unless they really jacked up their Dexterity at the expense of other abilities, but so what? Their HP are still likely to be crap after that).
Meaning that the only real benefits of a Monk level dip are basically the +2 on all saving throws and the chance to invest in Hide, Move Silently, Listen, or whatever as a class skill for one level. The fighter's proficiencies and bonus feat are worth more than that.
I've played multiclassed Monks before. It's nothing to write home about. In fact, they fairly well suck because of their loss of pure-Monk or pure-other-thing focus, giving them poor or mediocre offense and defense in both fields. One kind of mediocrity + another kind of mediocrity does not = awesome. The ONLY thing my high-level multiclassed Monk (he only has 3 levels of Monk, and a mix of levels in other classes) has going for him is high saving throws, because I emphasized Wisdom and Dexterity for him, and all of his classes give him high Fortitude while most of them give one other high save, plus the 3-level Monk base. The only thing my multiclassed Monk is good for is passing saving throws, and even in that department he isn't perfect. Everyone else outdamages and outlasts him; he just avoids most saving-throw-dependant effects, so he remains in the fight long enough to get beaten down proper-like for his mediocrity, rather than auto-stopped by a single spell early on.
And if he were a pure Monk instead, he'd have Spell Resistance by now and be even more spell-immune, yet he'd also have better combat ability in melee (granted, he'd be slightly worse in ranged combat than he is now, but that's all; he'd be tougher, faster, and a better tank-ish warrior if he had only stayed in Monk; but I develop my characters organically through play, not forcing them along a preplanned path, even though I often do have an initial plan that gets discarded if it doesn't mesh with how things have gone in-play).
