multiclassing idea

[Doombybbr]

as multiclassing is not very good in 4e (you use up a feat just to swap powers.) I think there should be another way to multiclass. so I came up with this:
to multiclass the player has to lower the points at level 1 that they use to modify their starting ability scores by 4, then they gain the class features and two at will powers from that class, when they level up and gain a power, they have to choose the power from BOTH skill trees instead of just one. (notice that armour proficiancies, hit points and such are NOT bonuses so the player has to choose which class they get their "class traits" from.)

alternatively they can use up 4 extra points to have power gains separate for each class and/or 4 extra points to get BOTH "class traits" (hit points however have to be chosen eg. one has 12+ cons and the other has 14+ cons at first level-only one can be chosen).

This means that multiclassing can be very good BUT it comes with a price...
lower stats.
the required points can be changed if you want to balance it out more.

 

[OSEZNO]

How is this (intrinsically) different from Hybrid?

 

[Doombybbr]

multiclass feats use up a feat.
If you mean multiclassing without any debuffs (as there HAS to be some sort of penalty or it would be overbpowered) then that is why the character sacrifices stats for it.

 

[the Jester]

I take it you're not familiar with the hybrid character rules from PH3. This is pretty similar.

 

[OSEZNO]

How is this (intrinsically) different from Hybrid?

multiclass feats use up a feat.
If you mean multiclassing without any debuffs (as there HAS to be some sort of penalty or it would be overbpowered) then that is why the character sacrifices stats for it.

I take it you're not familiar with the hybrid character rules from PH3. This is pretty similar.

Yes, as I previously stated (and Jester above), this sounds like the 4E hybrid class.

PHB 3 can explain it better and more accurately (and at length) than I can, but basically you pick to classes, for the first 5 levels you get alternating powers from each class, you pick skills from either (?) class, they (more or less) half the HP you would get per level from each class and then add them together, you have proficiency's from the class that has the lowest (i.e. if you're a paladin and a wizard, you're only proficient with cloth) and you get pretty much none of the class features, (like the different barbarian bonuses or warlock pacts, etc.) but you can take a feat (hybrid class) and it allows you to gain one of those benefits.

I suggest looking into it further. It is for all intents and purposes the "real" multiclassing in 4th edition. While multiclassing itself seems to be just a sort of flavoring (with some benefits).

 

[Doombybbr]

but it allows the player to get CLASS FEATURES (as that is the main POINT of multiclassing eg. a rogue could increase damage output if he could also use the ranger's hunters quarry - so this form of multiclassing requires some form of penalty.)

It is not exactly the same - one player may choose hybrid to avoid the penalties and another may choose this as it means class features (a rogue - ranger - warlock would have massive damage output but suffer from -8 stat points at level 1 - and would not be able to have an ability score of 18, resulting in their main stat being +3 instead of +4.)

 

[OSEZNO]

but it allows the player to get CLASS FEATURES (as that is the main POINT of multiclassing eg. a rogue could increase damage output if he could also use the ranger's hunters quarry - so this form of multiclassing requires some form of penalty.)

It is not exactly the same - one player may choose hybrid to avoid the penalties and another may choose this as it means class features (a rogue - ranger - warlock would have massive damage output but suffer from -8 stat points at level 1 - and would not be able to have an ability score of 18, resulting in their main stat being +3 instead of +4.)

Your example is unfortunate because Rogue/Warlock hybrids already have the sneak attack and warlocks curse features without taking the hybrid feat for those class features (likewise, monks who share a primary stat with rogues can do flurry of blows meaning a brutal scoundrel rogue would be looking at as much as 3d6+14 (or more) damage every round with a rogue power at will, with no penalties besides one hybrid feat at first level that would open Brutal Scoundrel as a class feature to him [+str mod damage to sneak attack damage, etc.]).

However, it is worth noting, as I mentioned slightly above, that sneak attack EXPLICITLY says it works with rogue powers (flurry of blows is just an enemy you hit this turn), and curse damage is when you hit with a warlock power. Meaning they wouldnt stack in Hybrid world (unless you houseruled that, but again, it's just as likely that people wouldn't take this combination [you would already be penalized a lower base attack bonus for both classes because they don't share primaries, in reference to the rogue and the warlock])

 

[Doombybbr]

actually sneak attack is for light blade and curse is automatic once per turn.

 

[OSEZNO]

actually sneak attack is for light blade and curse is automatic once per turn.

Sneak Attack (Hybrid): This class feature functions as the rogue class feature (Player's Handbook, page 117), except that you can deal the extra damage only when you hit with a rogue power or a rogue paragon path power.

Warlock's Curse (Hybrid): This class feature functions as the warlock class feature (Player's Hand book, page 131), except that you can deal the extra damage only when you hit a cursed enemy with a warlock power or a warlock paragon path power.

(( side note: turns out I was wrong about the monk power as well))

So perhaps that's the difference between your idea and hybrid class, I just presume that there is little incentive. In a case like rogue/warlock, you would have to start with a race that gives +2 to con/charisma and dex to have +4's in those stats (probably charisma), and then would have no secondarys from the warlock. If the race met only one of those, (like dex and str, for example), the highest stats you could start with would be 16, 16, 10, 10, 10, 10 (after the racial bonus)

I don't know how you could balance your penalty (to hit and to skills) while balancing what you want to penalize (automatically hidden from stealth every turn as long as he moves three squares, 4d6+(number) damage per turn, etc.).

 

[the Jester]

The reason you can't get class features from both classes is because it makes singleclassed characters markedly inferior.

Your suggestion combines that with making multiclassed characters kind of suck in other ways.

Usually, correcting a broken thing by breaking it in the other direction is iffy at best.