Multiclassing Questions

[Ashodin]

I tired searching for an answer to this on the forums first, but it seems my search doesn't work. I do not have permission to do that. Odd.

So I figured I'd post the question and I apologize before hand if this question has already been asked / answered.

Multiclassing seem's very different in this version. And for the most part I believe I grasp the general concept to it. You choose the multiclass feat, and follow it's instructions on selecting your at will or whatever it provides. Easy enough.

What I don't gather is exactly how this effects your character in the long run. Now granted I never had or came across multiclass characters pre 4th edition because the people I played with where very strict on that. So the only experience I have with multiclassing is for DDO, and apparently it's very determental to your end game, cause you loose like your last level or something.

What i'm not sure of is does this happen for 4th edition as well? Do you loose your level 30 benefits? I figured the only down side from what it seems that is at whatever level you choose to multiclass, you just forgo selecting whatever you should have gone for your primary class? Am I right in understanding that?

And could someone explain what negative effects will come about multiclassing?


For instance, I'm thinking about multiclassing the groups Cleric since it's a babysitter and doesn't really do anything but heal atm. With a Druid, just for RP purposes mainly, I think it'll be cool to have a shape shifting cleric who can beat the snot out of people as a cat, then swap to heal.

Will this gimp the group? Mind you it is the primary healer, but there is a Warlord in the group who does secondary healing, so it won't destory them so much.

 

[Danceofmasks]

The general gist of multiclassing is thus:

You are a wizard. You multiclass into invoker (by taking a feat).
You are still a wizard.

At level 30, you are a level 30 wizard.

You get a few benefits from multiclassing, the most obvious being the MC feat itself.
It usually gives you training in a skill, and a little extra.
You also get access to feats and paragon paths.

Paragon Path access is really cool ... for the wizard above, for instance, taking the invoker paragon path Flame of Hope is just neat.
A few divine powers, an interrupt blind, really awesome AP cheese, giving allies saving throw bonus, etc.

 

[FireLance]

To add to the above:

You can also take additional feats to exchange an encounter attack power, a utility power and a daily attack power of your class for a similar power from the class you have multiclassed to (one feat each), but you have to be 4th, 8th and 10th level respectively.

This generally means that some multiclass combinations work better than others. In particular, those who share similar primary or secondary ability scores and use similar weapons or implements have better synergy.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

To further elaborate, multiclassing gives you access to everything that the new class has. This means that you meet the requirements for feats, powers, paragon paths and epic destinies.

In the example case you gave of a Cleric mc-ing into Druid, that would work just fine. Assuming you're talking about a ranged Cleric build, they use the same attack stat, so there's some synergy there. If the new Cleric/Druid took the Initiate of the Old Faith feat then he gains the Druids Wild Shape power, a beast form At-Will power that can be used once per encounter and can wield Druid implements.

In order to gain additional powers the Cleric/Druid will have to take additionally multiclass power swap feats such as the Novice feat that allows you to swap one of your encounter powers for an encounter power from the class you multiclassed into. If you take all of these feats you'll end up with an encounter power, a utility and a daily power. If you also take a Paragon Path from the class you mc-ed into, in this case it's a Druid PP, you'd have an additional encounter, utility and daily power from your second class.

The only time you might "lose" something by multiclassing is if you Paragon Multiclass. When you do that, you forgo a normal Paragon Path and instead you get to swap one at-will from your first class (Cleric) for an at-will from you second class (Druid). You then gain an encounter, utility and daily power from the second class as you level up, to mirror the way you gain powers from a Paragon Path. For some class combinations the loss of a PP might be worth it, but not always. Typically, most people seem to prefer having an actual Paragon Path.

 

[On Puget Sound]

The only "cost" is the feats. The first feat gets you a skill training, plus a VERY limited version of the second class's class ability (i.e. sneak attack once per encounter, or healing word once per encounter but without the cleric's bonuses to it).

The second, third and fourth feats allow you to swap one power (per feat) of your main class for a same-level power of your second class. That's all you ever get of your second class; it truly is "dabbling". You can change which powers you switch, though, when you level. So if you want, you can always have your highest powers be your secondary class powers.

At level 11, you can choose Paragon Multiclassing instead of choosing a paragon path. This lets you switch out one of your at-wills, and lets you switch more powers as you advance so that you are more truly a "multiclass".

The other option is Hybrid class, if your GM allows this playtest rule. Hybrid characters are truly split class from start to finish, and must balance their powers equally between the two classes as they advance.

And yes, it is possible for a Hybrid class to take multiclass feats to gain powers of a third class. If you are a half elf and your main class is bard, you can get even sillier. (A hybrid bard cannot get the bard's Multiclass Versatility, though )

 

[Ashodin]

So is that to say, if I MC'd a Cleric and Druid (since thats the scenero i've been running with), at level 2, took my new skills and ran with them, then I wouldnt be able to choose more druid skills till level's 4/8 and 10, then take up the 11th level swap power feat to get more?

 

[Ashodin]

The reason I ask is cause i'm using the Character builder to play around with this idea, and it seems well it's limited to level 3, so I'm not sure at what level's they would be able to obtain more of the MC'd specific stuff.

 

[FireLance]

Well if you are a cleric and you take the Initiate of the Old Faith druid multiclass feat, you get training in Nature, the druid's wild shape power, and one druid at-will power with the Beast Form keyword that you can use once per encounter.

At 4th level, you can take the Novice Power feat, which allows you to exchange one cleric encounter attack power for one druid encounter attack power.

At 8th level, you can take the Acolyte Power feat, which allows you to exchange one cleric utility power for one druid utility power.

At 10th level, you can take the Adept Power feat, which allows you to exchange one cleric daily attack power for one druid daily attack power.

If you have taken Novice Power, Acolyte Power and Adept Power, at 11th level, you could choose to paragon multiclass as a druid instead of selecting another paragon path. You would get a druid encounter attack power of up to 7th level as your paragon path encounter attack power, and you can swap out one of your cleric at-will attack powers for a druid at-will attack power. At 12th level you get a druid utility power of up to 10th level as your paragon path utility power, and at 20th level, you get a druid daily attack power of up to 19th level as your paragon path daily attack power. Note that many people feel that paragon multiclassing is not as good as taking a paragon path.

One problem with the cleric/druid multiclass is that they do not share implements. Clerics use holy symbols and druids use totems or staffs. Hence, you will need to invest in two implements in order to get the most out of your attack powers, unless you get a holy symbol that can be used as a totem or staff (or vice-versa). I believe there are a few in Adventurer's Vault 2.

 

[Ashodin]

Before hand, Thank you Firelance that give's me allot to work with and gives more information than the link!!!
*post edited*
Actually I think I found a site that explains it pretty good : The Core Mechanic: 4E Multiclassing : How To but he asks a question in here he's not sure of. It looks like at level 4,8, and 10, is when you get the swap option, but he asks can you take the swap options more than once per type? Like 2 encounter swaps, or 2 daily swaps.

But i'm not clear on how the swap works? Because from what i'm understanding is lets say you take the EncounterExampleA, then later you take the swap encounter feat, i'm understanding this means that at that point I can swap the EncounterExampleA for a different druid encounter, or a cleric encounter (cleric primary), but what about swapping back? Can this be done at a certian time or is it a 1 time swap?

 

[Doctor Proctor]

No, you can't take the power swap feats multiple times. So you can't take Novice Initiate twice in order to get two Druid powers. The only way to get access to more powers from the second class is to take a Paragon Path from that class, or Paragon Multiclass.

As for the second part, I'm not sure that I understand clearly... But lets say that you take the Novice Initiate feat and decide to swap a Level 1 Cleric encounter power for a Level 1 Druid encounter power. You lose the Cleric power, but now gain the Druid power. If at a later time you decide you want a different Druid power you can retrain it when you level up. So, for example, you could retrain it so that you have a 1st level Cleric power again, but then give up a 7th level Cleric power to gain a 7th level (or lower) Druid power.

If you ever decide later that you don't want the multiclass power swap feat at all, you simply retrain it away when you level. At that point you'll lose the power you swapped (although you're still multiclassed, unless you retrain the base multiclass feat away at a later level) and you'll gain back the Cleric power that you originally swapped.