Multiclassing.

[Stalker0]

Is it just me or do the multiclass feats seem horribly imbalanced with each other?

For example, getting hunter's quarry 1/encounter is pretty nice. I can mark a big enemy, and I have an average 3.5 extra damage on him for the whole fight. For a paladin or fighter, that's pretty good. Heck that's good for anyone!!

Or I can take rogue. I can sneak attack, assuming I'm using a light weapon (poor fighters and paladins and wizards and warlocks and...um yeah). But hey I get 2d6 extra damage....once per fight. I can get 3.5 damage all fight long, or 7 damage for one swing. Man, I hope I don't miss.

Or the cleric feat. There is such a huge difference between 1/encounter and 1/day its not even funny. The way 4e goes you can often run 4-5 combats a day. The ability to heal 1/day seems pretty weak compared to any of the per encounter abilities.

 

[Boarstorm]

I notice that the highest level power you can swap out is 10th level.

What do you guys think? Are there more feats like Novice Power/Adept Power/Etc... as you move up in tiers, or are you forced to take the paragon path to advance further?

 

[small pumpkin man]

I notice that the highest level power you can swap out is 10th level.

What do you guys think? Are there more feats like Novice Power/Adept Power/Etc... as you move up in tiers, or are you forced to take the paragon path to advance further?

Any time you gain a level, you can alter that decision. Effectively, pretend you’re choosing the power-swap feat for the first time at the new level you’ve just gained. You gain back the power that you gave up originally from your primary class, lose the power that you chose from your second class, and make the trade again. You give up a different power from your primary class and replace it with a new power of the same level from your second class.

to put it simply, that's not a limit on the highest level you can take it, it's might be a limit on the lowest level you can take the feat, but honestly, I'm ont sure what those levels mean.

 

[lkj]

I notice that the highest level power you can swap out is 10th level.

What do you guys think? Are there more feats like Novice Power/Adept Power/Etc... as you move up in tiers, or are you forced to take the paragon path to advance further?

According to Mousferatu in the other thread, that might be an artifact of bad table formatting:

"The phrases "feats, xth level" should be with the prerequisites, not the benefits.

IOW, the prerequisite of "Acolyte Power" should read:

Any class-specific multiclass feats, 8th level.

And the benefit should read:

Swap one utility power with one of multiclass"

If so, it isn't limited to 10thlevel.

AD

 

[Boarstorm]

Here's hoping you guys are correct.

 

[lkj]

Here's hoping you guys are correct.

Given that Ari (Mouseferatu) has seen the rules and is doing design work for 4e, I'd say it's a pretty good bet.

Here's the original post:

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4195044&postcount=8

 

[Surgoshan]

Glad I'm not the only one confused by that portion of the excerpt.

There were some broken images when I looked; are they tables or line breaks, I wonder?

 

[CleverNickName]

In the end, we came up with a system of feats that allow you to borrow abilities and powers from other classes. At 11th level, you can choose to forgo your paragon path in order to further specialize in a second class. This approach lacks the intuitive elegance of the 3E system, but it allows us to tone down or boost a class's multiclass options as needed.

Fail. This is not multiclassing; this is turning core classes into the equivalent of "prestige" classes. (EDIT: come to think of it, taking a prestige class in 3.x is a form of like multiclassing. But it still fails, because prestige classes are a lot more interesting than core classes.)

Multiclass feats allow you to dabble in the class features and powers of another class. You might be a fighter who dips his toe into wizardry, or a warlock who wants a smattering of rogue abilities. Each class has a class-specific multiclass feat that gives you access to features from that class.

Fail. Multiclassing (such as it is) in 4E sounds like it will be 90% cherry-picking. Just like it was in 3.x.

There are two restrictions on your choice of a class-specific multiclass feat. First, you can’t take a multiclass feat for your own class. Second, once you take a multiclass feat, you can’t take a class-specific feat for a different class. You can dabble in a second class but not a third.

Win. I retract my previous statement about cherry-picking. This check-and-balance seems plausable.

Any time you gain a level, you can alter that decision. Effectively, pretend you’re choosing the power-swap feat for the first time at the new level you’ve just gained. You gain back the power that you gave up originally from your primary class, lose the power that you chose from your second class, and make the trade again. You give up a different power from your primary class and replace it with a new power of the same level from your second class.

Fail. I re-instate my previous remark about cherry-picking. Why take something away if you are just going to give it back again? Maybe I'm just confused here; he uses the word "power" 18 times in 9 sentences and the article gets hard to follow...

Overall impression: Fail.

 

[Stalker0]

Thing is, why the heck do I need to wait until 10th level to swap out a daily power? I mean, if I'm a fighter/wizard, and I'm willing to give up a fighter's daily to gain a wizard, what's wrong with doing that at 1st level?

I'll be honest, the more I'm thinking about this, the more I don't like it.

 

[jaldaen]

One thing I noticed is 2 feats = 1 power... which is what I was guessing at in my racial breakdowns.

For example, a Fighter takes Soldier of the Faith (and gains its benefit), but once he chooses one of the "_____ Power" feats he swaps the benefit from Soldier of Faith for a Paladin power.

Nice and elegant. (The 2 feat = 1 power part, not necessarily the multiclassing part. I'm still pondering that one)