Multiclassing.

[neceros]

The article says:



Yes... I'd sort of hoped that 4E would be intuitive - I'm concerned at the admission that this isn't as intuitive as 3E.

I'm also not seeing how I can play a cleric/wizard blending without creating a 'priest of magic' class that taps both power sources. I can play a cleric whose has some wizard abilities, or a wizard with some cleric abilities... but can I play a 50/50 mixture? That was one thing I was hoping 4E would do better...

As I said above: Fourth Ed requires that you have a role. Being half and half means you fail that role, even if you can half do another's role. They want to get away from that.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I can play a cleric whose has some wizard abilities, or a wizard with some cleric abilities... but can I play a 50/50 mixture? That was one thing I was hoping 4E would do better...

You sure can, BUT you'll have to wait until 11th level to do it.

This seems restrictive, but most decent multiclassing setups in 3.5 took until levels 7-10 to really get going, and before then, they were usually terrible.

This approach lets a character be genuinely good at their role, and then lets them branch out if they so chose.

 

[Jawa1972]

That doesn't appear to be an option - there's a feat for encounter powers, utility powers, and daily powers, but not at will powers.

from the article:
When you take one of these power-swap feats, you give up a power of your choice from your primary class and replace it with a power of the same level or lower from the class you have multiclassed in.

So at level 4 you can swap an at will or an encounter power. If so then Ranger TWF is in and then at level 11 your fighter can access the Stormwarder prestige class. a fighter whirlwind of death sounds fun.

 

[Stalker0]

Once again WotC seems to be handicapping the players. I think I will be throwing out the feats. Other than the small portion of the other class it gives you, you pretty much have to sack one ability for another. Thus losing both a feat and an ability.

This is a big thing. It costs me a whole feat to gain this power. Not an extra power, just to have the privilege of something different. Even if feats are more common in the game, they don't grow on trees.

Further, multiclassing does NOT seem to be created equal. If I'm a fighter with a high strength, then multiclassing into warlord powers seems like a good idea. Or I can pick up a wizard power and use my....int, so now I have a crappier attack roll.

In fact, the wizard doesn't multiclass well with anyone. His primary int stat is not the primary for anyone else's powers. Not even warlord powers, remember, the wizard doesn't get the warlord's tactician ability, so those nice warlord powers that give an extra int benefit if your a tactical warlord don't apply.

 

[ryryguy]

Some abilities seem MUCH better than others - isn't this exactly what they were trying to avoid?

If your going to allow partial access into a class - why does everyone have the exact same benefit from multiclassing? wouldn't it be better to say "if you pick a feat regarding class x you can choose 1 y level ability from this class (with z limits)" and abilities increasing as you sink more feats. Giving everyone the same exact benefit seems very limiting considering the possible options this approach they propose could have.

Maybe this is to avoid giving access to particular class abilities that might cause problems when combined with abilties from other classes? In other words, some abilities might not stack up as "better" than others on a one-on-one basis, but they might cause non-obvious but big problems in the certain multi-class contexts?

I suspect that the wide open approach you're suggesting wouldn't work for that reason, at least. Also note that you can pick any encounter/utility/daily powers from the other class with the power swapping feats, but not at will powers, which seems like a basic "firewall" against broken combinations. If they happen, at least they won't be happening over and over again.

Still, it does leave the multiclass feat abilities seeming to be a little uneven on that one-for-one basis, as you point out. That is indeed a bit disappointing.

 

[Alkiera]

I'm a little annoyed that apparently you can't get Warlock's Curse with warlock training. I liked the idea of a sinister-looking fighter who gives the enemy the evil eye just before he enters combat with them.

Still, if the Ranger multiclass feat can offer Hunter's Quarry 1/encounter, I'll bet you can swap the warlock at-will pact power for 1/encounter Curse.

On the other hand, there are some concepts where 1/enc Eyebite might be pretty nice.

My guess would be that the RAW way means you have to pick a pact; if you took the curse power, which pact you chose would be ambiguous, and pacts seem to be a big part of the Warlock's fluff. As DM, I might let you do that, but you'd not have a pact, just have learned to curse people; you couldn't take pact-specific warlock powers. I would let you take feats that work off the warlock's curse, though, which could be interesting. And powers that aren't pact-specific would be fair game... if there are any. If you took warlock as your paragon path, you'd choose a pact then.

The basic pattern seems to be that Heroic tier characters just dabble in a second class; you get a skill and a class ability from it, and for a few feats more, can trade some powers out. Interesting to note that you don't need Novice Power to take the next one... You could just take Acolyte Power if you only wanted the Utility power, and not an encounter power.

They didn't expand on what taking a base class as your paragon path does, but I'd guess it gives you more of the class abilities (instead of the PP abilities) and you can choose from the second class for your paragon powers.

So 'dipper' multiclassing is the feats, that gives you a skill and a class ability, and lets you trade powers from your class for your secondary class powers. 'True' multiclassing has to wait for the Paragon tier; at which point you become more of a gish than before. Possibly you could re-train some of your '[X] Power' feats if they are no longer needed for your concept, and take the desired powers via the Paragon multiclass system.

I think this may be the closest yet to making the rogue/wizard character I've been trying to build in RPGs since playing a rogue with spells in Diablo 1.

Note: given the levels are reqs for the feats, not power choice-related; you can take these more than once to swap out more powers. Gonna need lots of feats...

 

[Scrollreader]

If the answer to something is wait till 11th level, then its not an answer at all. Let's be honest guys, In 3e, there are people who have never played above 6th level. And in 4e, there will be people who never play above 10th. If it takes that long to make a character concept, then the system isn't helping.

Well. 3.X isn't much better. You can't really multiclass well (not the sense of anything that has to do with spellcasting, at the very least) without a PrC. Not many of those avaliable before 6th level. The system as it stands doesn't work well at low levels. UA's 'multiclassing at first level' was a nice try, but ultimately not worth it. And to the guy with three fighter levels, and three sorceror levels at level 6? I'm pretty sure he'd rather be fighter six with fireball.

A true mixing of all that both classes have to offer isn't avaliable until paragon tier. But neither are any of the paragon paths. If you want a lesser amount of multiclassing the system supports it, even at low levels. I don't have a problem with saying "to be as good at magic as Bob, and as good at Swordplay as Mary" requires paragon level achievement. If you don't want to be that good, use the feats.

 

[Ondo]

from the article:
When you take one of these power-swap feats, you give up a power of your choice from your primary class and replace it with a power of the same level or lower from the class you have multiclassed in.

So at level 4 you can swap an at will or an encounter power.

Uh, no. Novice Power specifies you swap an encounter power, Acolyte Power specifies a utility power, and Adept Power specifies a daily power.

 

[ryryguy]

from the article:
When you take one of these power-swap feats, you give up a power of your choice from your primary class and replace it with a power of the same level or lower from the class you have multiclassed in.

So at level 4 you can swap an at will or an encounter power. If so then Ranger TWF is in and then at level 11 your fighter can access the Stormwarder prestige class. a fighter whirlwind of death sounds fun.

The feat only says encounter power, not at will power. It seems you can't get at will powers from the feats.

 

[Lackhand]

I'm actually not sure why this is unintuitive. Different, sure. But unintuitive? Eh. "Unusual".

You only get one class. One character, one class. Perfectly sensible.

You will never be the same as the guy who spent 20 years at the wizarding academy, without refactoring your character. Okay!

This solves, elegantly, the 70/30 or more split -- a character that's mostly one thing, and only a little bit the other.

It doesn't solve elegantly at all the 50/50 split. But!

If you really really really want a 50/50 split, sometimes you want your own base class, sometimes you're just trying to be difficult p).
I think a 50/50 fighter/magic-user is now best represented with a swordmage, no matter what they look like. I think a 50/50 fighter/cleric is now a paladin. In general, look to the role you want to fill and the power source you want to draw from, and the rest shall follow.