D&D 5E Multiclassing

[Gardens & Goblins]

Sure. I also accept that there are those who believe that the earth is flat.

Great! Thank you for your contribution.

 

[Xetheral]

People in the real world don't usually just pick up some unrelated skill randomly.

Your experience differs sharply from mine. Most people I know have a collection of unrelated skills accumulated whenever they had both the interest and the opportunity. Frankly, if someone offered to teach me a new skill I'd be hard-pressed to refuse unless it was among the narrow collection of topics I find utterly uninteresting.

Our differing real-world experiences seem to inform our game preferences. In my mind, single-classed characters are far more implausible than their more-diverse multi-classed bretheran. It's a partially-tongue-in-cheek example, but I'm hard-pressed to imagine what fighter with the necessary intelligence wouldn't choose to put in the time to learn Wizardary just for access to Unseen Servant. In my mind, multiclass characters better represent the complexity and nuance of the myriad preferences and experiences inherent in being a person.

(Of course, it's always possible my experiences suffer from selection bias--if I prefer overly-complicated people I may well have a distorted view of what is normal.)

 

[Arial Black]

And you sound like an ****, beyond that if someone can tell me a different reason to multiclass...

Because I want to.

It's my PC, my choice to make. Not other people's, even the DM's. Mine.

Now, can you tell me a reason why the DM should take my agency away?

The DM controls everything in the world except the PCs. That agency over their own PCs is the only thing a player has. If the DM takes it away then he might as well be just telling a story. To himself.

Players know that they are playing a game, that the game needs to be fair, so the game has rules. Like the character creation rules. Although 'Best Fighter In The World' is a valid concept, it is inherently unfair where there is more than one player.

Multiclass PCs obey those rules. For every advantage they get, they have a disadvantage.

If a Rog 3 levels up and wants to take a level of Ftr, he gets lvl 1 Ftr abilities but doesn't get lvl 4 Rog abilities. Further, classes are constructed so that higher class levels are more powerful than low class levels. MC PCs have sacrificed those more powerful abilities in order to get a wider range of lower level abilities; MCing is not a free lunch!

TL;DR: you ask for a reason to multiclass? I ask for a reason to deny multiclass.

 

[seebs]

People in the real world don't usually just pick up some unrelated skill randomly.

I am unable to make any sense of this. I don't think I've ever met anyone who didn't have a bunch of unrelated skills picked up for no long-term reason.

 

[CapnZapp]

According to the PHB you can use pact magics spell slots to cast spells from other classes. So a cleric with a couple of levels of warlock can get back spell slots that can be used to cast Cure Light Wounds.

That doesn't make any sense to me thematically - it seems like healing should come from their deity, not from their pact with otherworldly power.

If I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, let me know.

Note: I completely understand why they did it this way, and I would explain it as spell slots are similar to mana in other systems (although broken down into discrete chunks/slots). It doesn't matter where you get the mana from, you either have mana or you don't. It does simplify things.

To me it just seems like having two different motors, one that runs on gasoline and one that runs on diesel. The fuel for one should not be usable for the other. Of course if I was really strict and not stuck on the warlock/cleric thing I'd have to break up spell slots based on divine vs arcane/wizard vs warlock vs charisma and so on, which would be a pain. So I'm not recommending anyone else follow my convoluted logic, just mentioning something I do in my campaign.

PHB Page 164

Pact Magic. If you have both the Spellcasting class feature and the Pact Magic class feature from the warlock class, you can use the spell slots you gain from the Pact Magic feature to cast spells you know or have prepared from classes with the Spellcasting class feature, and you can use the spell slots you gain fram the Spellcasting class feature to cast warlock spells you know.​

Why then not remove that rule you quoted?

Instead of removing multiclassing, I mean?

You seem like you're using a PHB rule to argue why another PHB rule shouldn't be used. To me it appears simpler to remove the first rule than the second...

 

[cmad1977]

I keep wanting to multiclass my Barbarian with a couple levels of fighter. Alas, the power gamer in me sees the next Barbarian ability and I just can't resist another level of juicy Barbarian action.


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[Ahrimon]

Because I want to.

It's my PC, my choice to make. Not other people's, even the DM's. Mine.

Now, can you tell me a reason why the DM should take my agency away?

The DM controls everything in the world except the PCs. That agency over their own PCs is the only thing a player has. If the DM takes it away then he might as well be just telling a story. To himself.

Players know that they are playing a game, that the game needs to be fair, so the game has rules. Like the character creation rules. Although 'Best Fighter In The World' is a valid concept, it is inherently unfair where there is more than one player.

Multiclass PCs obey those rules. For every advantage they get, they have a disadvantage.

If a Rog 3 levels up and wants to take a level of Ftr, he gets lvl 1 Ftr abilities but doesn't get lvl 4 Rog abilities. Further, classes are constructed so that higher class levels are more powerful than low class levels. MC PCs have sacrificed those more powerful abilities in order to get a wider range of lower level abilities; MCing is not a free lunch!

TL;DR: you ask for a reason to multiclass? I ask for a reason to deny multiclass.

It's your PC, but the DM has the final decision in the rules of the game, meta or not. Multiclassing is an optional rule and the DM chooses not to use it the player has the choice to accept that, find a different game, or volunteer to DM themselves.

A player demanding that the DM uses multiclassing is no different than demanding that the DM uses minis and a grid for tactical combat or that they play in Dark Sun when the DM is putting together a more traditional sword and sorcery game. Basically you don't have a right to it. You can discuss it with the DM and the rest of the group, but if in the end the DM chooses not to use an optional rule or even change the default rules the only choice you have as a player is play by the DMs selection or don't play.

 

[Oofta]

Why then not remove that rule you quoted?

Instead of removing multiclassing, I mean?

You seem like you're using a PHB rule to argue why another PHB rule shouldn't be used. To me it appears simpler to remove the first rule than the second...

I agree that according to the rules you could have a multiclass cleric/sorcerer/warlock/wizard gish if you wanted to that would share the same set of spell points.

My house rule is that you can't multiclass as a Warlock/Cleric, because I see warlocks as kind of a cleric variant when it comes to thematically where the caster gets their power from. I don't see it much different from the non-compete clause I have to sign because I'm a programmer. Clerics and warlocks are given power by a supernatural being in exchange for their obedience. On the other hand I could see a multiclass Cleric/Paladin as long as they only worship one god (or maybe different associated gods in a tight pantheon). A cleric/wizard that worships a god of magic might also make sense.

Abstracting spell points out into a generic pool o' power is a little odd to me as well, even if I do understand why they did it. It hasn't come up in a game yet so I haven't had to make a decision.

If you don't see clerics and warlocks in that light, that's perfectly fine. If you think a deity wouldn't know (or eventually find out) that they had a "double agent" in their midst or you know how you would deal with it that's OK too.

 

[CapnZapp]

Sure, but I thought you said you banned the cleric/warlock combo because the rules say you can cast cleric spells using warlock slots.

Given that, my instinctive response was to suggest removing that rule, instead of removing the mc combo...

 

[Celtavian]

In conclusion, there are plenty of reasons to multiclass that have nothing to do with optimization

True. Sometimes you want to build something cool that no one class quite fits. I build a warlock/paladin/sorcerer not strictly for power, but because the overall mix gave me enough different abilities to make a very cool sorcerous knight somewhat similar to Elric.