Multiple 5ft steps?

[tburdett]

There is absolutely nothing in the rules to prevent a player from moving 5', making an attack, and then moving again. The rules explicitly allow this. This allows a player to move, make an attack, assess the situation and decide whether or not to move again, and then take whatever action they think is appropriate.

As moving only 5' does not draw AoO, and as the rules do NOT require you to state at the time that you take that move whether or not it will be your ENTIRE movement, this can cause problems.

This could result in a situation such as...

Player moves 5 feet and attacks a creature. Player kills the creature. Player decides to move again since the creature is now dead. GRRRR! If players movement was going to equal more than 5', the now dead creature should have taken an attack of opportunity when the player first moved. Rewind? Give the creature an 'after the fact' attack? What if that 'after the fact' attack kills the player? Does that mean that the monster is now ALIVE because it's attack of opportunity killed the player before the player killed the creature? This destroys continuity.

The only solution that I can see is some type of house rule.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There is absolutely nothing in the rules to prevent a player from moving 5', making an attack, and then moving again. The rules explicitly allow this.

Is he hasted, or spring-attacking? Those are the most likely ways that is possible...

As moving only 5' does not draw AoO, and as the rules do NOT require you to state at the time that you take that move whether or not it will be your ENTIRE movement, this can cause problems.

You can make a similar after-the-fact decision about making iterative attacks.

"Essentially, you can decide whether to take the normal attack action or the full attack action depending on how the first attack turns out."

So I can take one shot with my bow, or a whack with my right-hand shortsword, or a punch with one fist, and see what happens. If the orc doesn't fall over, I can fire more arrows, or hit him again with my right-hand sword, or punch him some more.

But, I cannot use rapid shot, or my left-hand sword, or flurry of blows. Making a full attack action with any of those involved would have applied a modifier to my first attack roll. I cannot take an action which might retroactively change the outcome of that first attack.

As a DM, when the player takes that first shot, I ask him "Are you using Rapid Shot?" If he says no, then after his first shot, he can choose whether or not to take the rest of his iterative attacks, but he can't use Rapid Shot.

As a DM, when the player moves 5' and attacks, I ask him "Is that a 5' step to avoid AoOs, or just a move?" If he says it's a 5' step, he can't move after his attack... even with Spring Attack. If it's a move, he can Spring Attack, but that initial move might draw AoOs from opponents other than the one he's Spring Attacking.

-Hyp.

 

[Li Shenron]

As a DM, when the player moves 5' and attacks, I ask him "Is that a 5' step to avoid AoOs, or just a move?" If he says it's a 5' step, he can't move after his attack... even with Spring Attack. If it's a move, he can Spring Attack, but that initial move might draw AoOs from opponents other than the one he's Spring Attacking.

Effectively, sometimes we prefer declaring our intentions for the full round before rolling, especially when we have 2 possibilities depending how a first attack/spell works.

 

[Zhure]

There is absolutely nothing in the rules to prevent a player from moving 5', making an attack, and then moving again.

Except the quote from page 117. The relevant passage again is: " If your entire move for the round is 5 feet (a 5-foot step), enemies do not get attacks of opportunity for you moving."

The rules explicitly allow this. This allows a player to move, make an attack, assess the situation and decide whether or not to move again, and then take whatever action they think is appropriate.

Except if the first move is protected from AoO due to movement the character can take no other movement during the round.

As moving only 5' does not draw AoO

see above

, and as the rules do NOT require you to state at the time that you take that move whether or not it will be your ENTIRE movement, this can cause problems.

Not if you follow the logical conclusion.

This could result in a situation such as...

Player moves 5 feet and attacks a creature. Player kills the creature. Player decides to move again since the creature is now dead.

He cannot move again under normal conditions.

GRRRR! If players movement was going to equal more than 5', the now dead creature should have taken an attack of opportunity when the player first moved. Rewind? Give the creature an 'after the fact' attack? What if that 'after the fact' attack kills the player? Does that mean that the monster is now ALIVE because it's attack of opportunity killed the player before the player killed the creature? This destroys continuity.

No continuity as long as you keep a 5-foot step discrete from a 5-foot move.

The only solution that I can see is some type of house rule.

 

[Artoomis]

Player moves 5 feet and attacks a creature. Player kills the creature. Player decides to move again since the creature is now dead.

Nope. Assuming the move of 5 feet above was a "5-foot step" that avoids an AoO, player may not choose to move again under any corcumstances

He might be -forced to move in response to a bull rush attack, for example, when forced back 5 feet.

 

[Anubis]

There is actually no such thing as a 5-ft. step. All it really is moving 5 ft. and ONLY 5 ft. in a single round. If, on your turn, during ANY part of your action, you move more than 5 ft., you no longer have made a 5-ft. step.

So no, you can't take multiple, because it isn't technically a movement in and of itself. Read the PH. It's in there.

 

[dkilgo]

There is a diference in a 5 ft. step, and a 5 ft. move.

The 5 ft. step is an adjustment to your current position.

A 5ft. move is when you blantantly move five feet to execute a maneuver, possibly attack, or just keep moving.

Granted you could perform a maneuver or even attack with a 5 ft. step, but the 5 ft. step is nothing more than a positional adjustment. Like trying to just get some distance between you, the spellcaster, and the attacking orc. Of course, in that situation the spellcaster would want to take the 5 foot step before casting his/her spell to avoid the AoO. A positional adjustment.

[EDIT]
Despite my argument I am still confused as to whether the spellcaster in my situation would get another full move. Would she?

 

[Artoomis]

There is a diference in a 5 ft. step, and a 5 ft. move.

The 5 ft. step is an adjustment to your current position.

A 5ft. move is when you blantantly move five feet to execute a maneuver, possibly attack, or just keep moving.

Granted you could perform a maneuver or even attack with a 5 ft. step, but the 5 ft. step is nothing more than a positional adjustment. Like trying to just get some distance between you, the spellcaster, and the attacking orc. Of course, in that situation the spellcaster would want to take the 5 foot step before casting his/her spell to avoid the AoO. A positional adjustment.

[EDIT]
Despite my argument I am still confused as to whether the spellcaster in my situation would get another full move. Would she?

NO. If you take a "5-foot step," then that's ALL the movement you get to do. Period.

 

[The Souljourner]

Here's the deal -

At any time during your turn if your first move is only 5', you have to declare whether or not this is going to be your only move for the turn. If you so declare, it does not count as a move action, it does not draw attacks of opportunity, and you cannot move for the rest of the turn.

If you do not declare that this is your only move for the turn, it counts as a move action, you may draw attacks of opportunity and may move later in the turn (following all the normal rules) which also may draw attacks of opportunity.

That's it.

The 5' step is not a real thing. It is simply shorthand for the above rules.

-The Souljourner

 

[tburdett]

All of you who are saying "This is how it works!" need to re-read page 117 without extrapolating or rationalizing.

**At any time during your turn if your first move is only 5', you have to declare whether or not this is going to be your only move for the turn. If you so declare, it does not count as a move action, it does not draw attacks of opportunity, and you cannot move for the rest of the turn.

If you do not declare that this is your only move for the turn, it counts as a move action, you may draw attacks of opportunity and may move later in the turn (following all the normal rules) which also may draw attacks of opportunity.**

THIS IS NOT IN THE RULE BOOK. THIS IS A HOUSE RULE.

**NO. If you take a "5-foot step," then that's ALL the movement you get to do. Period.**

THIS IS NOT IN THE RULE BOOK. THIS IS A HOUSE RULE.

**There is actually no such thing as a 5-ft. step. All it really is moving 5 ft. and ONLY 5 ft. in a single round. If, on your turn, during ANY part of your action, you move more than 5 ft., you no longer have made a 5-ft. step.

So no, you can't take multiple, because it isn't technically a movement in and of itself. Read the PH. It's in there.**

OH MY GOD! ANUBIS ACTUALLY READ AND UNDERSTANDS THE RULE!

Anything not contained within the rule book is a house rule. 90% of what you guys are presenting are simply that, house rules.

I'm not saying that the rule is perfect, or even well written, but it is the rule. In this case, the rule concerning 5' moves and attacks of opportunity should probably have incorporated one of the house rules above to prevent the logical inconsistancies that can, and do, happen. I play with the rule as written to give the players the flexibility that the designers intended. If they move 5', make an attack, and then (using haste) move again, they suffer every attack of opportunity, retroactively if necessary, that they trigger.