Multiple attacks on a single target

[keterys]

So, I'm really not a big fan of how much more powerful powers with multiple attacks on a single target are compared to just making one big hit - ex: Twin Strike, Rain of Blows, etc.

I need to fiddle with the wording a bit, but what would be screwed up by a change like:

'Whenever any power gives you multiple attacks on a single target, you may only get damage bonuses and critical hit bonus damage once for the power, but you add together all damage dice.'

So, Twin Strike with d12+9 / d8+7 and you'd deal a maximum of d12+d8+9. Rain of Blows for 1d10+15 four times and max of 4d10+15.

If you crit with two of the hits for Rain of Blows, with a +2 vicious weapon, it would be 2d10+20 (2d10 maxxed) + 2d12 (One Vicious Crit) + 15.

And so on.

 

[Psikus]

'Whenever any power gives you multiple attacks on a single target, you may only get damage bonuses and critical hit bonus damage once for the power, but you add together all damage dice.'
.

You probably want to add 'in a single round' somewhere. This messes with Riposte Strike and the like, and gets weird with sustainable powers like flaming sphere.

 

[Plane Sailing]

At first look, it seems as though the main issue is that those multiple strike powers become less powerful - which is the point of the change.

It is very similar thematically to the way TWF and multiple attacks against one target is handled in True20.

Presumably if you have the option of attacks against several different targets (like twin strike), you would still get your full damage bonus against each of the different targets?

Have you looked at the various examples with multiple attacks on a single target and seen how they compare? Effectively it is slightly better than 'half damage on a miss' because (a) you get two (or more) chances to hit and (b) if you hit you add the full damage bonus.

After all, if the change means that now nobody wants to take them instead of everyone wants to take them, it probably wouldn't be that good a change!

Cheers

 

[evilbob]

After all, if the change means that now nobody wants to take them instead of everyone wants to take them, it probably wouldn't be that good a change!

It would make them worse than simple 4[W] attacks, since they'd do the same damage and you'd have to roll to hit multiple times.

On the other hand, depending on the wording that might mean they'd have 4 chances to hit so your odds of getting your +static bonuses at least once are higher.

 

[keterys]

At first look, it seems as though the main issue is that those multiple strike powers become less powerful - which is the point of the change.

Yeah... but I'd want to make sure I didn't reduce them _too far_

It is very similar thematically to the way TWF and multiple attacks against one target is handled in True20.

Good to know, I'll doublecheck the wording for that - though they handle damage so differently...

Presumably if you have the option of attacks against several different targets (like twin strike), you would still get your full damage bonus against each of the different targets?

Correct. I'm happy to encourage people to attack multiple targets.

Have you looked at the various examples with multiple attacks on a single target and seen how they compare? Effectively it is slightly better than 'half damage on a miss' because (a) you get two (or more) chances to hit and (b) if you hit you add the full damage bonus.

Also you have an increased chance to get your critical damage bonus. I haven't extensively run the math, just eyeballed it, but I wanted to get a gut reaction from people first.

After all, if the change means that now nobody wants to take them instead of everyone wants to take them, it probably wouldn't be that good a change!

Absolutely. Now, if the change made it roughly okay except for a couple powers that needed to do 2W instead of 1W, or 1W+Stat instead of 1W, then that's easy to address.

On the other hand, depending on the wording that might mean they'd have 4 chances to hit so your odds of getting your +static bonuses at least once are higher.

Yep - higher chance to land quarry/curse/sneak attack, higher chance to get critical bonus dice. Less likely to maximize _all_ your dice for a critical hit. So if your chance to hit normally is 60% and you have 1d8 quarry and +10 static, splitting a 4W instead two 2Ws would net you 24% * 14.5 more damage on average, and you'd have about 4.75% more chance to get, say, your extra 2d8 critical dice (which isn't all that much damage, but it all adds up)

You probably want to add 'in a single round' somewhere. This messes with Riposte Strike and the like, and gets weird with sustainable powers like flaming sphere.

Ah, good point - easy to fix the wording to cover flaming sphere type powers, but Riposte Strike I'll need to carefully word the rule to work cleanly for.