D&D 5E Multiverse Theory and you

AnotherGuy

Adventurer
To answer the OP's question, yes!
However, the PCs have only done it once but the PCs know it is possible and more likely to happen again as they increase in levels as the tone and storyline of the campaign will likely shift.

BACKSTORY: The Old Ones of the Mystaran universe had a disagreement amongst themselves (plot storyline) resulting of which several Multiverses were created by them, some similar (hence Tiamat and Takhises...etc) and others vastly different (i.e. Darksun...etc). Realmspace has/had its Luminous Being, essentially an Old One.
The Bleed is the transient plane that leads from one Multiverse to the next and it's not an open secret, even in Sigil it is but myth and legend that such a place exists.

The entire setup is called the Omniverse. Each Multiverse has its own laws and systems that guide it.
For instance in Mystara the Wild Magic sorcerer has a 5% (1 in d20) chance per sorcery point expended of incurring a wild magic surge, however in Realmspace this 5% increases to 10% per sorcery point to highlight the increased magical energies latent in that Multiverse.

Like I said, the characters have been fortunate/unfortunate enough to only experience the jump from one Multiverse to another once, when they were 7th level - they are now 13th.
 
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If the current multiverse approach looks anything like 5e Eberron, then indeed the multiverse is Forgotten Realms gods gods everywhere in every setting.

I hope the designers reconsider their current approach going forward.
Not going to pretend I know how the "First World" thing from Fizban is going to be developed, but as a long-time Planescape fan, there have always been deities that are worshiped across multiple worlds.

That is not the same as having a single shared pantheon that is worshiped in every setting.
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
Not going to pretend I know how the "First World" thing from Fizban is going to be developed, but as a long-time Planescape fan, there have always been deities that are worshiped across multiple worlds.

That is not the same as having a single shared pantheon that is worshiped in every setting.
I want a setting where gods never happened.

Somewhere in this multiverse, I need this nontheistic setting to exist.

I want an alternative to the FR/Planescape polytheism.

I need my setting to be something different from the FR/Planescape setting.

I need a bigger multiverse that has room for the settings that I want.
 

I want a setting where gods never happened.

Somewhere in this multiverse, I need this nontheistic setting to exist.

I want an alternative to the FR/Planescape polytheism.
There are no gods on Athas, as I recall, though admittedly, I'm not familiar enough with Dark Sun to know whether they existed at one point and died or abandoned it, or whether they never existed there at all. Regardless, I think a nontheistic setting is perfectly doable under a Planescape model.

Whether they'd actually do it is another matter - religion and the role of the gods is a pretty useful worldbuilding tool.
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
There are no gods on Athas, as I recall, though admittedly, I'm not familiar enough with Dark Sun to know whether they existed at one point and died or abandoned it, or whether they never existed there at all. Regardless, I think a nontheistic setting is perfectly doable under a Planescape model.

Whether they'd actually do it is another matter - religion and the role of the gods is a pretty useful worldbuilding tool.
But the language that I have read, at least in some versions is, Athas is "cut off" from FR/Planescape.

I would rather the multiverse approach be: FR/Planescape lacks existence in Athas.

So, when the multiverse allows heroes to jump from one universe to an other universe, each universe plays by its own rules, and has zero to do with any other universe.
 

Athas is "cut off" from Planescape in a similar fashion to how Eberron essentially is, and for much the same reason - they had a setting that wasn't built with Planescape in mind, but wanted to give a potential avenue for people who wanted to link the two to do so.

Part of Planescape's identity is that it incorporates other settings within itself and enables travel between them.

I understand not wanting to be forced to connect a setting to Planescape's cosmology if you don't want to - I myself prefer to keep Eberron and its cosmology distinctly separate from the Great Wheel, and I'm unlikely to add in the MtG settings - but its already optional for you. You don't have to use Planescape if you don't want to.

The only thing forcibly walling off every setting into its own bubble so that no setting has anything to do with any other setting does is undercut settings like Planescape where part of the point is connecting other settings together.
 

Stormonu

Legend
If it wasn't for interference from a party from Greyhawk, my homebrew of Amberos would not exist. My avatar's namesake - Stormonu, was originally another player's character from Greyhawk and a planar hop to the mega-dungeon mountain of Amberos led to the rise of the entire continent from the sea.

As recently as 3E, I've used world-hopping with a party that started in FR, hopped to Greyhawk and off to Ravenloft, with a detour through my Amberos campaign back on their way home.

Prior to that, I had a group who hopped to an alternate-reality version of my Amberos campaign where the dragons won the Dragon War and the world was very gamma-worldy, as high technology had been deployed by the human side in the last desperate days. I've also used Spelljammer to have players skip from DL to Realmspace and to the Astromundi Cluster (to use the Rock of Braal) for a campaign.

There are some worlds I do treat as isolated though; Dark Sun for one, and I haven't used plane-jumping in Eberron yet
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
I want a setting where gods never happened.

Somewhere in this multiverse, I need this nontheistic setting to exist.

I want an alternative to the FR/Planescape polytheism.

I need my setting to be something different from the FR/Planescape setting.

I need a bigger multiverse that has room for the settings that I want.
Can I raise a practical question at this point: without deities, where do your divine casters (Clerics, etc.) get their spells and powers from?
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
Can I raise a practical question at this point: without deities, where do your divine casters (Clerics, etc.) get their spells and powers from?
The divine power source is about a personal relationship with the universe around one, via symbols, archetypes, spiritual communities, meaningfulness, right-and-wrong, things that come with a sense of a "sacred" or "transcendence".

Xanathars talks about a Cleric of a "cosmic force". I feel this puts the finger on what all clerics are about. Whatever it is that a person perceives to be the deepest fundament of reality − that is the cosmic force by which the Cleric can resonate miracles. For polytheists, the gods are the deepest level of reality. But for some nontheists, enlightenment is the deepest level. And so on.

So, if the "weave" is a vague term to refer the way that a universe is inherently capable of magical effects, then:

• Psionic manipulates the weave directly − by ones own mind − because the weave is psychosensitive and entangles conscious intentions.
• Arcane manipulates the weave indirectly by manipulating the magical properties within natural objects.
• Divine manipulates the weave by means of oaths, ethics, symbols, archetypes, worldviews, and a personal relationship with the universe.
• Primal manipulates the weave psionically, but focuses animistically on the minds of the elements of earth, water, air, fire, plus plants.
 

Can I raise a practical question at this point: without deities, where do your divine casters (Clerics, etc.) get their spells and powers from?
Obviously, different games and settings handle it differently, but in Eberron, for example, divine power comes from an individual's faith, not the deity they follow. There's a running joke associated with the setting that you could worship your shoe in Eberron and still get cleric spells as long as you believed strongly enough. Furthermore, in Eberron, even the existence of the gods is a matter of faith - you can't just go talk to your patron deity in person as you can (at least in theory) in a setting like FR, where a visit to the realms of the gods are just a matter of finding a way there - which has the added benefit of enabling things like religious schisms, heresy, and extremism by allowing someone to deviate from the god's "official" teachings and still be able to tap into that divine power.

While Planescape generally goes the "divine power comes from the gods" route, it also has outliers like priests that worship specific concepts (like death) rather than a god associated with that concept, or even the Athar (a faction of atheists that don't view the "gods" as truly divine) being able to tap into power of the Great Unknown, the true "divinity" behind everything that they believe the "gods" are merely pretending to embody.

And then you have Dark Sun, where the gods are long gone and the closest things to clerics are the templars, who are more like warlocks drawing their power from the Sorcerer Kings.

So there are ways to make it work.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
The divine power source is about a personal relationship with the universe around one, via symbols, archetypes, spiritual communities, meaningfulness, right-and-wrong, things that come with a sense of a "sacred" or "transcendence".

Xanathars talks about a Cleric of a "cosmic force". I feel this puts the finger on what all clerics are about. Whatever it is that a person perceives to be the deepest fundament of reality − that is the cosmic force by which the Cleric can resonate miracles. For polytheists, the gods are the deepest level of reality. But for some nontheists, enlightenment is the deepest level. And so on.

So, if the "weave" is a vague term to refer the way that a universe is inherently capable of magical effects, then:

• Psionic manipulates the weave directly − by ones own mind − because the weave is psychosensitive and entangles conscious intentions.
• Arcane manipulates the weave indirectly by manipulating the magical properties within natural objects.
• Divine manipulates the weave by means of oaths, ethics, symbols, archetypes, worldviews, and a personal relationship with the universe.
• Primal manipulates the weave psionically, but focuses animistically on the minds of the elements of earth, water, air, fire, plus plants.
Interestingly enough, though the terminology differs the underlying idea isn't all that far from how I do it.

Instead of a "weave" I have it that magic is a universal force of physics, on par with gravity etc.; different terminology and rationale but the end result is very much the same as yours.

Psionics access it directly and innately, much like yours.
Arcane access it by mathematical formulae, study, repetition, concentration, and - often - interaction with the physical world.
Divine access it via, in effect, allowing a deity to push it through them; the divine caster acts as more of a conduit and shaper.
Bards access it via manipulation of sound.

I don't have Primal as such. Many creatures with innate magical abilities can access magic simply due to what they are, and even more creatures (i.e. anything not seen on real-world Earth) require ongoing access to background magic in order to survive at all. And yes, this means an Elf caught in a null-magic zone for any length of time is in a heap o' trouble! :)
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
Interestingly enough, though the terminology differs the underlying idea isn't all that far from how I do it.

Instead of a "weave" I have it that magic is a universal force of physics, on par with gravity etc.; different terminology and rationale but the end result is very much the same as yours.

Psionics access it directly and innately, much like yours.
Arcane access it by mathematical formulae, study, repetition, concentration, and - often - interaction with the physical world.
Divine access it via, in effect, allowing a deity to push it through them; the divine caster acts as more of a conduit and shaper.
Bards access it via manipulation of sound.

I don't have Primal as such. Many creatures with innate magical abilities can access magic simply due to what they are, and even more creatures (i.e. anything not seen on real-world Earth) require ongoing access to background magic in order to survive at all. And yes, this means an Elf caught in a null-magic zone for any length of time is in a heap o' trouble! :)

Weave and laws of physics are the same.

Psi as mind, same.

For me, Arcane is protoscience. So the "formulas" are figuring out how to exploit the magical properties in natural objects, in the same way that pharmaceuticals exploit the chemicals in plants and nuclear physicists exploit the energy in atoms.

The difference between a Wizard and a Sorcerer is, the Wizard is the scientists who builds a machine. The Sorcerer is the result of an experiment, that modified the body into the machine. The Sorcerer is learning how to pilot the machine.

The Paladin is divine, and lacks deities. The source of magic is the cosmic power of a sacred oath.

For me, the Bard is a psionic class. Telepathic mind manipulation, psychometabolic healing, precognitive divination, even telekinetic sound energy: all psi.
 


Yaarel

Mind Mage
C. S. Lewis has the Christian mistrust of magic users. They are always villains in his books.
The biblical point of view includes heroes who are various kinds of miracle workers, even protoscientists (magi). I was hoping that Lewis felt comfortable with that archetype for his heroes.
 

South by Southwest

Incorrigible Daydreamer
So I am curious. I have been DMing for decades and I don't know if I have ever used "multiverse" storytelling. While PCs have done some planar travel, especially when I have run Ravenloft or Planescape stories, I don't think I have ever had PCs traveling from one setting to another, as in, I have never had players transported from Krynn to Toril for example. But with the emphasis placed on the concept with recent releases, I am curious. Am I an anomaly?

So have you done worldhopping as a feature in a campaign? Care to talk about it?
I've not done it, but I am just starting a campaign in which hopping across possible worlds ('a la David Lewis) is, in principle, possible. I so emphatically say "in principle" because I hope it doesn't happen at least until the very end of the campaign: plane-hopping is something I love, but hopping across one's own alternate choices is.....complicating. Very, very complicating.

Still, I'm leaving it in there as a quiet option because it's their adventure, not mine, and I generally subscribe to the approach that says if there's nothing in there that could give the DM serious headaches, the campaign is incomplete. Improv, wot wot?
 

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