[Mutants & Masterminds] Weapons And Armor vs. Supers

[swrushing]

Yeah, see, here's the thing. Making the damage save involves mitigating or ignoring the damage. Having a high defense involves ignoring the damage. So at some point, there's going to be an overlap.
.

Actually, to me, DEFENSE is avoiding getting hit. DAMAGE SAVE, is avoiding getting hurt after you have been hit.

The D20 part of the damage roll is basically whether it was a great shot (head/chest) or a wing'ed 'em kind of thing.

if a low damage save super took a PL-12 exploding round and rolled WELL and came out just rattled, that would be an "oh my gosh" wonderful luck stuff of legend kind of moment.

if a low pl mook was hit by sych an attack, remembering the mook rules he would not even need to roll.

But i don't really need to slosh DEFENSE into DAMAGE SAVE and vice-versa.

 

[swrushing]

Intuitively, you expect to be able to pick up a weapon, and strike harder than unarmed. Or take a trophy weapon from an enemy, and expect to have it around next adventure, without sacrificing your personal develpment. Or actually be able to find and spend money on buying a vehicle or building a lair... I'm sure I'll eventually find some happy medium, even if you people are being no help.

Actually, all of these statements might well be true for non-supers, or maybe just non-four color super genres.

Do you see the thing in FF picking up a lead pipe to beat down the villains he is having trouble with? Do you see spidey looting thru the pockets of the bad guys he bags for loose change, even though parker is continually poor? Do you see beast keeping some of the blasters being shot at him and carrying them around even though he has no ranged attacks and it would certainly help if he did?

Nope.

While i mainly comes from a CHAMPIONs background for supers before MnM, both HERo and MnM have had similar conventions regarding keeping "found stuff" and needing to spend cp to do so.

Both also have traditional damage caps, the notion of a campaign limit for PCs on attacks, which would limit the casual pick up for extra damage **IF** a character were already at campaign max.

let me point out for emphasis... if your super-strong guy had +7 super-strength in a PL-10 game and he picked up a +3 damage sword, he would see the full benefit.

MNM's rule is **not** supers cannot pick up weapons and use them for advantage

MnM's default rule is Supers cannot use casual pick ups to easily get around the PL limit the Gm set for his campaign.

Like i said much earlier, if you don't like the effects the PL cap has and don't see the balance thing as that important, the easist thing is to remove the cap or loosen it.

 

[Thomas5251212]

Depends on the nature of his protection. If he has 10 ranks in Protection, then no hand-held human weapon can harm him at all; anything below a +10 damage rank (and most guns are +5 to +7) can't harm him at all unless the shooter has Surprise Strike along with a couple other feats or something like that. If he has Force Feild +10, then he still has to roll, since FF adds to the damage save.

Actually, Force Fields work just like Protection in that regard. I believe you're probably confused by a pre-errata notation leftover from the earlier version of the power in playtest.

 

[coyote6]

I would suggest that the problem is more with the battleaxe's damage rating. I'd go with something more like the numbers in Blue Rose, where a battleaxe does +3 damage.

In BR, most of what D&D calls one-handed martial weapons do +3 damage. Seems about right to me for mundane (i.e., non-adamantium/monomolecular/enchanted/etc.) weapons in a four-color superhero setting. It's also a better comparison to firearms & the like.

(Not perfect, but with a superhero game, too much realism in weapon damage makes playing superheroes difficult.)

 

[Arrgh! Mark!]

I would also suggst Godlike. It's system is just as fast and loose. However, it's also lethal. If you do want a less lethal game, it's possible - but there's still the possibility of a bad guy rolling two tens with a rifle and your hero dying instantly.

Not to say that there aren't problems with it. Mass combats can drag, especially if the GM has to roll for each bad guy and helper. Small unit tactics are the best and talent vs. talent combat excels.

However, if you want a less lethal, more four colour type game I suggest M+M. And how is it you think a character who can eat steel girders should do more damage if he picks up a crowbar? The crowbar bends. Axe? The guy's just as dead as if he'd hit him.

Decide what tone of lethality you want.

 

[WayneLigon]

Actually, Force Fields work just like Protection in that regard. I believe you're probably confused by a pre-errata notation leftover from the earlier version of the power in playtest.

Holy cats, you're right. Ut oh....

 

[Thomas5251212]

Holy cats, you're right. Ut oh....

Is that a problem? Frankly, Force Field is arguably overpriced even treating it as Protection; it certainly would have been a loser as AS.