So after the defeat of a mighty dragon my players decided to give 4e another try, and I ran a second adventure. I figured we'd get a truer picture of the system once the newness has worn off, so we went at it again.
Since I couldn't level the party, I decided to give them all 2 magic items to account for an increase in power.
This time I tried more environmental effects to see how it played out. Here are a few of the encounters I ran just to get a picture.
Encounter A
4 kobold skirmishers
1 wall trap
1 dust trap
The party moves down a narrow hallway, and sets off a pressure plate. A wall comes down, dividing the party in two. A black ichor dust comes down from the ceiling, covering them and blocking out all light sources. Walls open up on the sides, and 4 kobold skirmishers (2 per side) come out to play. Kobolds have darkvision, Pcs do not....
This combat definitely brought a thrill to the table. The warlock and wizard got separated from the group, so they were in the most trouble. I allowed a full round action to remove the ichor from their lights, or a standard action to remove it (though requiring a saving throw at a +5 bonus). The skirmishers racked up solid damage on the first round with their sneak attacks, and eventually the party survived though the wizard got dropped. They found the switch to release the wall and moved on.
Encounter B
2 Hobgoblin Soldiers
4 Kobold Slingers (with cover)
1 bridge over a river
I hobgoblins were stationed on the bridge, with the slingers on the other side protected by foliage, granting them cover. The paladin raced across the bridge, and one of the hobgoblins bull rushed him off. I allowed a saving throw to grab the rail (I had heard this is what you do if you get forced moved into a square like a pit trap), and he succeeded. I gave him a DC 5 athletics check to pull himself up next turn as a standard, and as a move if he made a DC 15.
The party moved in while the slingers tried to immobilize them with gluepots. Eventually the warlocks dark dream knocked a hobgoblin into the river. I gave him an athletics check to swim, and he was so successful (a 29!!) that he swam like a wish to the edge. However, he was prone, and the rogue took full advantage. He used acrobatics to run along the bridge's rail (and avoid OA's), then sneak attacked the prone goblin. From then on it was cleanup.
Encounter C
4 Kobold Archers
1 pit trap (attack vs reflex)
1 glue trap (attack vs reflex)
1 dazzling light trap (attack vs fort)
The party was once again down a narrow hallway that opened up into another room. Mirrors were placed in the room that was reflecting their light sources back to them, making it hard to see. At the entrance to the next room was a 10 foot pit trap, concealed with camouflage. Beyond that was a field of glue, that slowed whoever entered the field. Beyond were kobold archers in high nooks (I gave them a +1 attack bonus for higher ground).
The front line's static perception wasn't enough, and the fighter fell into the pit. The archers fired at him, and released a bright light column over the pit that dazzled (-2 attack rolls, I don't know what the actual condition is) those who were exposed to it.
The party started making athletics checks (DC 10) to jump the pit. Actually, this was a big challenge for the party, as many of their athletics rolls were +1 at best, however they all made it. Several got stuck in the glue and slowly made it near the kobolds. I allowed them athletics checks to climb that walls and took out the kobolds.
Encounter D
7 Skeleton Minions
1 Skeleton Warrior
1 Chillborn Zombie
1 dark crystal
This one was my favorite. The party encounters a line of skeletons, with a dark crystal far in the background. They easily dispatch the skeletons with a turn undead, but are shocked when all of the skeletons get back up!! Further, they found out that as the skeletons grouped together, they were gaining strength from each other (+2 attack, damage for each skeleton adjacent) With a religion check, they realize its the dark crystal doing the work, and they race past the immobilized skeletons (I still allowed the immobilized condition of turn undead to apply to the regenerated skeletons) to the crystal.
The crystal was guarded by a chillborn, who attacked those who attacked the crystal. I gave the crystal the same resistances as the chillborn (ie 10 weapon resist), so the party had to pound away at the crystal. Further, the chillborns aura continued to drain away at the melee fighters, and the skeletons recovered, getting back in the fight.
The fight grew tense as the skeletons started knocking down the party's hitpoints. Eventually they destroyed the crystal, but still had to deal with the remaining undead. I lowered the chillborn's weapon resistance down to 5 to make it a fairer challenge for a 1st level party and they eventually prevailed.
I threw several more encounters (I think 8 in total) at the party, including some gnolls. The party's shining moment was facing a Gnoll Demonic Scourge along with 6 kobold minions and 2 kobold archers. I knew the gnoll was way too strong for a 1st level party, so I lowered its defenses by 3 across the board. What a difference that made!!!
The party landed several dailies and within 2 rounds had annihilated the scourge's 106 hitpoints. The kobolds instantly surrendered, and the party had some rp fun kicking around the kobolds.
All in all I think everyone had fun, though it wasn't quite as climatic as last week's win against the dragon. Some lessons learned:
1) Terrain is pretty easy in 4e, but don't overdo it. The wall/dust trap went well, as did the crystal one. But the glue/pit/light fight was a little over the top I think.
2) A -X penalty to defenses can go a long way towards turning an overpowered encounter into a reasonable one. I tried this tactic on the gnolls as well as a few other monsters, and it seemed to work well. Even a -2 to defenses can have a big impact.
3) Unless your in closed terrain, its hard to protect the wizard. While fighters and paladin's are great at keeping enemies close, with diagonals the way they are and mobility so high, its very difficult to prevent a creature from running right up to the wizard on the first round. The wizard took a lot of damage in many fights.
So far, I'm still very positive about 4e. Those encounters were very easy to make, and easy to run. I still love the saving throw and bloodied mechanics, and the party kept finding new ways to use their skills and powers for good effect. However, there were a couple of disappointments:
1) Clerics may not be mandatory, but man oh man do they make a difference. We had a cleric for most of the game, but the group decided to switch out the cleric and see how the party fared without one. It was like night and day. The party went from getting knocked down and getting right back up to "um guys, does anyone have the heal skill?..."I do, I got a 15, that stabilizes him, but...he's out of the fight." That said, no one in the party died without the cleric, and that's saying something, but a party is still greatly enhanced by a cleric.
2) There's still a big disparity between a defender and a wizard's toughness. In 4e, they've mentioned that the toughness difference has been weakened, but we didn't see that in game. The paladin was nigh invulnerable for the game, with a high AC, big hitpoints, and the ability to heal himself with lay on hands, I rarely got him to bloodied, and never knocked him out. The wizard on the other hand was near death several times. Thing is, its not that hard to get to the wizard, especially on the first round, and he has a low AC and few hitpoints.
I don't know if I'll get another chance to run a playtest before 4e comes out, but if I do I'll keep you all posted.
Since I couldn't level the party, I decided to give them all 2 magic items to account for an increase in power.
This time I tried more environmental effects to see how it played out. Here are a few of the encounters I ran just to get a picture.
Encounter A
4 kobold skirmishers
1 wall trap
1 dust trap
The party moves down a narrow hallway, and sets off a pressure plate. A wall comes down, dividing the party in two. A black ichor dust comes down from the ceiling, covering them and blocking out all light sources. Walls open up on the sides, and 4 kobold skirmishers (2 per side) come out to play. Kobolds have darkvision, Pcs do not....
This combat definitely brought a thrill to the table. The warlock and wizard got separated from the group, so they were in the most trouble. I allowed a full round action to remove the ichor from their lights, or a standard action to remove it (though requiring a saving throw at a +5 bonus). The skirmishers racked up solid damage on the first round with their sneak attacks, and eventually the party survived though the wizard got dropped. They found the switch to release the wall and moved on.
Encounter B
2 Hobgoblin Soldiers
4 Kobold Slingers (with cover)
1 bridge over a river
I hobgoblins were stationed on the bridge, with the slingers on the other side protected by foliage, granting them cover. The paladin raced across the bridge, and one of the hobgoblins bull rushed him off. I allowed a saving throw to grab the rail (I had heard this is what you do if you get forced moved into a square like a pit trap), and he succeeded. I gave him a DC 5 athletics check to pull himself up next turn as a standard, and as a move if he made a DC 15.
The party moved in while the slingers tried to immobilize them with gluepots. Eventually the warlocks dark dream knocked a hobgoblin into the river. I gave him an athletics check to swim, and he was so successful (a 29!!) that he swam like a wish to the edge. However, he was prone, and the rogue took full advantage. He used acrobatics to run along the bridge's rail (and avoid OA's), then sneak attacked the prone goblin. From then on it was cleanup.
Encounter C
4 Kobold Archers
1 pit trap (attack vs reflex)
1 glue trap (attack vs reflex)
1 dazzling light trap (attack vs fort)
The party was once again down a narrow hallway that opened up into another room. Mirrors were placed in the room that was reflecting their light sources back to them, making it hard to see. At the entrance to the next room was a 10 foot pit trap, concealed with camouflage. Beyond that was a field of glue, that slowed whoever entered the field. Beyond were kobold archers in high nooks (I gave them a +1 attack bonus for higher ground).
The front line's static perception wasn't enough, and the fighter fell into the pit. The archers fired at him, and released a bright light column over the pit that dazzled (-2 attack rolls, I don't know what the actual condition is) those who were exposed to it.
The party started making athletics checks (DC 10) to jump the pit. Actually, this was a big challenge for the party, as many of their athletics rolls were +1 at best, however they all made it. Several got stuck in the glue and slowly made it near the kobolds. I allowed them athletics checks to climb that walls and took out the kobolds.
Encounter D
7 Skeleton Minions
1 Skeleton Warrior
1 Chillborn Zombie
1 dark crystal
This one was my favorite. The party encounters a line of skeletons, with a dark crystal far in the background. They easily dispatch the skeletons with a turn undead, but are shocked when all of the skeletons get back up!! Further, they found out that as the skeletons grouped together, they were gaining strength from each other (+2 attack, damage for each skeleton adjacent) With a religion check, they realize its the dark crystal doing the work, and they race past the immobilized skeletons (I still allowed the immobilized condition of turn undead to apply to the regenerated skeletons) to the crystal.
The crystal was guarded by a chillborn, who attacked those who attacked the crystal. I gave the crystal the same resistances as the chillborn (ie 10 weapon resist), so the party had to pound away at the crystal. Further, the chillborns aura continued to drain away at the melee fighters, and the skeletons recovered, getting back in the fight.
The fight grew tense as the skeletons started knocking down the party's hitpoints. Eventually they destroyed the crystal, but still had to deal with the remaining undead. I lowered the chillborn's weapon resistance down to 5 to make it a fairer challenge for a 1st level party and they eventually prevailed.
I threw several more encounters (I think 8 in total) at the party, including some gnolls. The party's shining moment was facing a Gnoll Demonic Scourge along with 6 kobold minions and 2 kobold archers. I knew the gnoll was way too strong for a 1st level party, so I lowered its defenses by 3 across the board. What a difference that made!!!
The party landed several dailies and within 2 rounds had annihilated the scourge's 106 hitpoints. The kobolds instantly surrendered, and the party had some rp fun kicking around the kobolds.
All in all I think everyone had fun, though it wasn't quite as climatic as last week's win against the dragon. Some lessons learned:
1) Terrain is pretty easy in 4e, but don't overdo it. The wall/dust trap went well, as did the crystal one. But the glue/pit/light fight was a little over the top I think.
2) A -X penalty to defenses can go a long way towards turning an overpowered encounter into a reasonable one. I tried this tactic on the gnolls as well as a few other monsters, and it seemed to work well. Even a -2 to defenses can have a big impact.
3) Unless your in closed terrain, its hard to protect the wizard. While fighters and paladin's are great at keeping enemies close, with diagonals the way they are and mobility so high, its very difficult to prevent a creature from running right up to the wizard on the first round. The wizard took a lot of damage in many fights.
So far, I'm still very positive about 4e. Those encounters were very easy to make, and easy to run. I still love the saving throw and bloodied mechanics, and the party kept finding new ways to use their skills and powers for good effect. However, there were a couple of disappointments:
1) Clerics may not be mandatory, but man oh man do they make a difference. We had a cleric for most of the game, but the group decided to switch out the cleric and see how the party fared without one. It was like night and day. The party went from getting knocked down and getting right back up to "um guys, does anyone have the heal skill?..."I do, I got a 15, that stabilizes him, but...he's out of the fight." That said, no one in the party died without the cleric, and that's saying something, but a party is still greatly enhanced by a cleric.
2) There's still a big disparity between a defender and a wizard's toughness. In 4e, they've mentioned that the toughness difference has been weakened, but we didn't see that in game. The paladin was nigh invulnerable for the game, with a high AC, big hitpoints, and the ability to heal himself with lay on hands, I rarely got him to bloodied, and never knocked him out. The wizard on the other hand was near death several times. Thing is, its not that hard to get to the wizard, especially on the first round, and he has a low AC and few hitpoints.
I don't know if I'll get another chance to run a playtest before 4e comes out, but if I do I'll keep you all posted.
