My 3 quibbles with 4e

[ExploderWizard]

I think points 2) & 3) are related - two sides of the same coin. With 4e moving away from swinginess to a more balanced and predictable style of combat, I've found that combat in 4e tends to be inevitable. If the combat is too easy, it quickly becomes inevitable that the PCs will win, at which point the players don't feel challenged and the combat becomes about grinding through the enemy HP and trying to minimise your HP/resource expenditure. If the combat is too hard, it inevitably becomes a player deathfest and/or TPK. In either situation, there is little the players can to to change things, because there is no longer the possibility of a miracle turn which swings the combat back one way or the other.

Very well put. This has been my experience as player in most 4E sessions that I have been involved in. There have been exceptions:

1) The recent gameday adventure. The action moved fairly fast and only lasted a few rounds. Our DM told us his standard of play was to cut HP in half and multiply damage by two. Judging by some reports of how long the adventure took to complete ( 7 hours ) I think this adjustment saved the day.

2) The new campaign we just started last Friday. After 5-6 months of spending our bi-weekly game slogging through KOTS, we dropped that module and started playing in a homebrew game. Our characters own a pawn/ used magic item shop and work as secret operatives for a young prince who is at odds with his scheming older brother and father in a large urban environment. The first session was really great,and featured more roleplaying and intrigue than combat. I think the "default" style of campaign for this edition really didn't click with us. I'm still not a huge fan of the rules in general, but a good homebrewed campaign goes a long way toward making gaming more enjoyable no matter what set of rules are used.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Maybe I'm playing 4e with a 3.5e mindset...

One bit of 3E mindset that I saw myself and other DMs grasping onto that has helped contribute to the grind factor and the danger factor is the tendency to have your monsters not want to provoke OAs.

By being more willing to provoke OAs I have been able to:

1) Allow defenders to use their abilities. Not provoking the defender in 4E is similar to never designing encounters with the 3E ranger's favorite enemy.
2) Set up more advantageous situations for the monsters. Whether it's helping them move into flanking position to become more accurate or push past the defender to attack a "squishy" party member, this can add to the excitement of the encounter.
3) Helps whittle away some of those hit points outside of the characters' turns. Thus reducing the "grind time."

I had to get out of that mindset and once I did my 4E encounters improved.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Please don't get me wrong, I don't want this to turn into a "bash 4e thread."

However, I don't think 4e is meant for roleplaying and an ongoing campaign.

 

[Mallus]

Overall, I feel that 4e is just a thinly disguised miniature battle game, given the extreme emphasis on combat (even more so that 3.5e).

It all depends on how you use 4e. My group has had it's share of battles. We also became a theater company and invented the Bollywood musical in-game.

However, I don't think 4e is meant for roleplaying and an ongoing campaign.

Wait until you see our new Story Hour...

My players and I want more than just a bunch of cool powers for combat.

Did I mention that my group invented --and performed-- the Bollywood musical in-game? We also turned a pig into a god, more-or-less.

For all its worth, I tried. I really tried.

Are you familiar w/Mutants and Masterminds? The fantasy source book for it, Warriors & Warlocks, has just been released in PDF and the hardcover is due out soon. For my money, M&M is the hands-down best d20 system. Since 4e isn't working for you, give it a look.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

1. All the Special Powers

I love "special powers." However, in this case, the word "special" is relative. Sure, every PC has a list of special powers, but Joe the Warrior Off The Street or Tom the Blacksmith? No. They are not touched by awesome like Melgrad the Dwarven Fighter or Shiningstar the Cleric of Pelor.

How do people keep track of all these modifiers? With chits or other such markers?

Well, for our group, we're playing online using MapTool, so it's a lot easier. When I do run some F2F 4e, I use this invention called "scratch paper."

Also--and this is more rhetorical--if everybody has special powers, then they really aren't so special. So why have them? What ever happened to "I attack and do X amount of damage?"

PHB1, pg 287.

2. Combats aren't scary for the players

We must be playing two different versions of 4e. At least once a session on average, I'm taking PCs down to bloodied or 0 hp, and I'm following the guidelines for encounter building from the DMG.

3. Combat Grind

Others have given some suggestions for this...