My 7th level party just killed a young adult dragon!

[Wolfspider]

But since it was submerged until moments before combat ensued, it had no idea that there was a flying halfling wizard over it ready to strike.

This was a black dragon, right? Swampy water, which can be pretty murky, is its natural habitat, so I would think that it would be able to see pretty well in it. With a massive bonus to Spot checks, seeing a halfling flying overhead should have been DC20 maybe...pretty easy to make considering its natural bonuses and any skill points it may have put in it. With its supernatural hearing, it could probably have heard the halfling whizzing around, perhaps with more difficulty because of the distortion of the water...but still quite possible with the bonuses. That's two chances to detect the wizard at very good odds. Smell, of course, is right out.

Look at the way a dragon's senses are handled in the Monster Manual. They get SO MANY bonuses. Even being in a difficult enviroment (under water or toxic waste or whatever) shouldn't have been an impediment to the dragon's ability to sense the dangerous wizard.

Of all monsters, dragons are the most aware of their surroundings....

 

[Dieter]

Oh. IIRC, the wizard was also invisible. Ok, that makes a big difference, but it's hard to recount every last action made during a battle that happened 5 days ago.

 

[Wolfspider]

Ahhh, invisible.

Gotcha.

That changes things. (I'm having trouble remember all the different dragon scenarios myself.)

The dragon would just have the (more difficult) Listen check. But, hey, it's still a possiblity.

 

[reapersaurus]

Oh sweet biscuits, that gives me such an idea for an adventure once my players hit a high enough level! And it certainly makes sense - dragons know they aren't popular, and any intelligent dragon worth his trove should have some informants in the civilized world.

Glad you like.
It only makes sense.
It surprises me when people assume that 'their' players are the only beings that could come up with stuff.
If you figure that there's a whole big world out there, you can guarantee that whatever your PC thinks up, others have done it before you, and therefore a monster is very likely to do these nasty PC-tricks as well.

That's not even mentioning the monsters that are SMARTER than PC's.
And more devious.

 

[Urklore]

How do you think I feel? The powerful 'kill the party' sorcerer in the final battle failed his save versus massive damage when I rolled a 1. Sometimes it is just the roll of the dice...........

 

[Wolfspider]

Fudge.

It's not just for breakfast any more.

 

[James McMurray]

Reapersaurus: Dragons are smarter than the PCs? How do you figure? Even great Wyrm chromatics only have a 22 Int (26 for Reds, 18 for Whites). At that level (22-25) the party wizard at least should have a higher intelligence, equaled only by the red dragon.

I think maybe you should actually read the stats of dragons instead of just pulling randoms statements out of the air like that. Then perhaps you'd understand their actual abilities instead of assuming that dragons cn polymorph, are higher intelligence than high level wizards, and are otherwise unbeatable.

Wolfspider: One thread hijacked by fudge is enough.

 

[Wolfspider]

Sorry. I'm having trouble distinguishing the two threads, actually. LOL!

 

[James McMurray]

I know the feeling!

 

[Victim]

In this case, the wizard is probably smarter than the dragon. On review, it seems the wizard had 20 Int. Even if the dragon was an exceptional specimen with a rolled 18, it would be no smarter than the wizard. I don't see many DM's giving players of high Int characters packets of extra information that they can deduce from their adversaries and optimized combat tactics to make sure the advantage from their high Int comes into play. Why should dragon's get the same effective benefit? They don't have the ability "Ex: Godlike Knowledge."

Second, I don't see many ways for the dragon to improve his tactics. Surprise round = partial action. If the dragon employs what is likely his most damaging attack in this case, a blast of acid, he'll be vulnerable to counter attack. On the other hand, Darkness would protect it from targeted spells. However, this throws away the surprise round and places the dragon's first attack in a rolled initiative order. Someone will probably beat it. Casting drakness might give the group time to prepare, changing formation or casting some buff spells. And why bother casting Darkness if a breath weapon attack will either kill or severely injure the humans. At level 7, I know that 27 points of damage to 2 people coming from a dragon would leave my group in a bad position. 27 points of damage would kill or incapacitate many humans, and even veteran warriors could likely be knocked out or severely injured by it. If most cases, a breath weapon will pretty much win the battle, especially if it knocks out the cleric. let's say it does use darkness, though. With a lower caster than group, it's very vulnerable to a dispel. It can be negated with daylight. And, because it just warned the group before attacking, those events might occur before it can do anything.

On another note, I've started to dislike Greater spell focus feats. In situations where the specialty comes into play, and when spells have powerful effects balanced by a negation save, I think they tip things too much toward success, hence death. Unless there's an interest in giving casters an advantage (ie - to preserve the current situation in FR for continuity), I think they should be set aside.

Finally, if said dragon was valiantly slain by a paladin charging on his warhorse splashed toxic goo everywhere with a critical smite attack, I doubt reapersaurus would protest as much.