D&D General My Best and Simplest Homebrew Rule: Nerfed Long Rests

[xiphumor]

When players take a long rest, the regain half of the features their descriptions say that they do, rounded up. Magic Items with charges similarly regain half of their charges, rounded up.

Hit dice and HP are the one exception. Players still regain their RAW half-of-all-their-hit-dice-rounded-down on a long rest. However, they must spend hit dice in order to regain HP, just as they would on a short rest.

In this system, spell-casters multiply each of their spell slots by their level and add up the total. They may regain a number of spell slots whose collective level adds up to half of that total, rounded up.

Short Rests are unchanged.

This system lets me not run 6-8 encounters per day, which is unreasonable for the pace of my story, without stretching everything out over the course of weeks like Gritty Realism demands. In general, short-rest-based and long-rest-based classes even out after about three straight days of adventuring. At the same time, if I want to run a high-intensity dungeon, all I have to do is give the players two or three long rests to gear up and prepare.

It might not be for everyone’s game, but it’s proved to be a powerful tool for bringing the mechanics of the game in line with my story pace.

 

[Vaalingrade]

So... the players will take two nights every five minutes instead of the frankly hilarious week of gritty sadness?

 

[Blue]

Interesting. I had tried working this from the other side, reducing slots and uses directly to match a 3-4 encounter adventuring day. Well, not exactly - my casters started off around the same as standard because T1 casters are fairly low in spells and I still wanted the feel of being a caster, not just an at-will cantrip spammer.

The main differences I see is that with yours, long rest recovery classes still have the greater capacity and and determine when they want to stay within recovery limits and when they want to pull out all of the stop - still giving them nova potential above the other classes just limited more towards once per adventure vs. once per day.

Also wonder about slot-level recovery - higher level spells are more efficient than low level spells so those could get better, and at high levels when recovering a lot of spells it's fairly trivial to replace 1st level utility spells like Shield.

I had a lot of problems figuring a good way to reduce the Warlock while still keeping them feel unique. I didn't want to move them to long rest recovery, but 1 spell per short rest for most of their realistic adventuring career just didn't seem like it would be satisfying to play. Do you have any suggestions?

 

[NotAYakk]

The point of Gritty is that "I take a week break" plausibly loses whatever plot is in the air at the time.

This turns "we sleep for the night" into "we sleep for 2 nights". It is a bit of a stretch that some ongoing plot that wouldn't find taking a night off suddenly fails if you take 2 nights off.

Once you have embraced tweaking the game speed of 5e, it becomes a matter of tuning encounter difficulty. With gritty, the PC resource for a problem is one long rests worth. If they run out of said resources and have to retreat, the (planned) failure consequence kicks in (in the in-world fiction).

With yours, I'm not sure what the resource budget for a single problem is.

With gritty it is clear.

Immediate problem: Monsters attacking right now, or criminal leaving city, or approaching a den of bandits. You don't have time for a short rest. You probably have time for rituals and similar recovery between sub problems.

Extended problem: Bandits are raiding an area, criminal investigation in a town, traveling between two spots. You don't have time for a long rest, but have time for (limited number of) short rests between sub-problems.

Plot Arc: Dwarven fascists are harvesting materials from lands abandoned by the elves when they left this plane to build a warforged army. You have time for (limited number of) long rests between sub-problems.

Making the consequences of taking a rest clear is key, in my opinion. And "long rests are 2 nights in total" doesn't make it much clearer, at least to me. I mean, if you "give" players rests, that is different; but rests should be (in my opinion) a player choice with usually obvious consequences and costs.

If you take a week off investigating criminals, they get away with whatever they are doing. If you go back to the origin city and take a week break while traveling, you failed the trip. If you take week off while bandits are raiding, they pull off another major raid and cause a lot more destruction.

If you take too many weeks while opposing the Dwarven fascists, they build their army and start the invasion. If you take a night off when a criminal is fleeing a city, they flee the city and are out of reach. If you try to take a short rest when your caravan is attacked, the monsters kill you (or if you hide, they destroy the caravan). If you take an overnight rest after hitting the bandit den, the bandits reinforce, ambush you in return, or leave the area. Etc.

...

Finally, I don't like your math. It is messy and inelegant.

 

[commandercrud]

"the players will take two nights every five minutes"

No. It forces you to move forward with reduced resources, making every encounter harder. If a DM is allowing sleeping for a night every 5 minutes, you have a problem.

 

[xiphumor]

My story is designed around problems that span over 2-4 days. It means that the characters are tired after traveling to a new town and might need a slow day to recover. This also means that I can use more mundane, everyday threats in a meaningful way because the characters aren’t always at full power, and it encourages players to cycle between who’s doing the heavy lifting at any given time.

Granted, I’m still working out how the math for encounters work out, but my rule of thumb is that if the adventurers aren’t fresh, everything is about 1.5 times harder because they’re usually at 2/3 strength.

 

[Blue]

Granted, I’m still working out how the math for encounters work out, but my rule of thumb is that if the adventurers aren’t fresh, everything is about 1.5 times harder because they’re usually at 2/3 strength.

Adventurers are at full strength for most of the encounters. They just don't have as much depth to that strength.

In an encounter, strength is measured by effectiveness per turn, which is mostly effectiveness per action though with some notable exceptions.

If you're going to have three actions in a combat, the fact that you are down a large number of mid-level slots won't mean a thing. Those are neither your most effective per action slots (your highest few levels) nor your utility/defensive slots (low level). And the slot-math method of recovery you can prioritize those. So you have have slots for Fireball and Shield at the cost of a 2nd level spell, and even moreso at the higher levels.

As long as you have enough higher level slots to last for a full combat, you are fighting at full strength.

 

[el-remmen]

Do you get your HD back before or after you have to spend them? And if the latter, do you get them back immediately?

 

[xiphumor]

Do you get your HD back before or after you have to spend them? And if the latter, do you get them back immediately?

You start a long rest by “taking a short rest” during which you spend any hit dice you have (if you want to). Then you finish the long rest which gives you new hit dice which you can then spend.

 

[el-remmen]

You start a long rest by “taking a short rest” during which you spend any hit dice you have (if you want to). Then you finish the long rest which gives you new hit dice which you can then spend.

Any rules for how long after a long rest you can take a short rest?

 

[xiphumor]

Any rules for how long after a long rest you can take a short rest?

Nope. That seems like far more of a table by table thing, and my players have been fine about it. If they started to abuse it, I might cap it at 2 short rests per long rest.

 

[el-remmen]

So in theory, my character could spend all his hit dice during the "short rest" period of the long rest, fall short of going back to full, and then in the morning take another immediate short rest and spend the dice I just got to top me off?

This is not a necessarily a critique. I have been playing with a version of what you suggest (not the spell slot stuff, just hps and hd) and this has kept me from implementing it - so I am trying to think it through.
I think what I came up with so far is, Short rests are cut to 30 minutes but otherwise work as normal. Long rests return half your max hps (so you could end up at max if you are only lightly hurt) and you can spend HD to get more but you can't regain more than half your level minus any you used this way.

 

[Reynard]

Honestly I think the easiest solution is "Long Rests can only occur in a place of both safety and comfort." It's solves the overland travel encounter nova problem, and forces the party to actually leave the dungeon to rest and deal with the consequences on their next delve.

 

[xiphumor]

So in theory, my character could spend all his hit dice during the "short rest" period of the long rest, fall short of going back to full, and then in the morning take another immediate short rest and spend the dice I just got to top me off?

This is not a necessarily a critique. I have been playing with a version of what you suggest (not the spell slot stuff, just hps and hd) and this has kept me from implementing it - so I am trying to think it through.
I think what I came up with so far is, Short rests are cut to 30 minutes but otherwise work as normal. Long rests return half your max hps (so you could end up at max if you are only lightly hurt) and you can spend HD to get more but you can't regain more than half your level minus any you used this way.

… I’m confused as to where you’re seeing a loophole. Let’s give a scenario:

I have 6d8 hit dice and 51 hit points max, 2d8 hit dice and 20 hit points at present, +2 Con, and I settle down for a long rest:

1. I immediately spend my 2d8 to give me 16 hit points. I’m now at 36.

2. I regain 3d8 hit points from my long rest.

3. I roll 2d8 and get another 14 back. I’m now at 50/51 and decide that’s close enough.

4. I could spend my last hit die immediately, but for 1 hit point, it isn’t worth it, so I save it for after I take some damage.

That’s my system. I’m close to full, but have less ability to rest now.

 

[NotAYakk]

I guess some people play "you pick how many dice to roll, roll them, and that is it for the rest", and if you don't spend enough you risk being under max HP (and if you use too many you risk wasting HD).

Others don't do that, and let the player roll HD repeatedly until it comes up with enough HP (or low enough leftover damage that they don't care).

For the first case, taking a short rest after a long rest is not that useful (except, say, warlocks). For the second, it lets you optimize HD rolls better.

 

[AnotherGuy]

My story is designed around problems that span over 2-4 days. It means that the characters are tired after traveling to a new town and might need a slow day to recover. This also means that I can use more mundane, everyday threats in a meaningful way because the characters aren’t always at full power, and it encourages players to cycle between who’s doing the heavy lifting at any given time.

Granted, I’m still working out how the math for encounters work out, but my rule of thumb is that if the adventurers aren’t fresh, everything is about 1.5 times harder because they’re usually at 2/3 strength.

I prefer a grittier system for our table but not one that racks up weeks, so I played around a lot with resting and I found it easier to integrate features/powers/slots with HD.
I scrapped short rests altogether and implemented the 5 minute break which allows one to burn HD for hit points.

An 8 hour rest recovers 1 level of exhaustion and if one is not affected by any levels of exhaustion one recovers 1/2 their HD rounded up. That is all.

Level of a Feature/Power/Slots
Levels 1-4 cost 1 HD
Levels 5-8 costs 2 HD
Levels 9-12 costs 3 HD
Levels 13+ cost 4 HD

i.e. So using an Action Surge for 1 attack costs 1 HD
Using an Action Surge with 2 attacks costs 2 HD (as you have to be minimum 5th level as a fighter to gain a second attack)
One can use levels of exhaustion to substitute for HD (on a 1 level = 1 HD) when one's HD reaches 0.

Further rule if one falls unconscious from loss of hit points, one gains one level of exhaustion. It is gritty, simple and ties the abilities to HD (reserves) and the exhaustion track within the 5 framework. Also solves the pesky Leomund's Hut...etc

EDIT: Mistakenly wrote Action Point instead of Action Surge. Corrected. Thanks @Nutation.

 

[Nutation]

i.e. So using an Action Point for 1 attack costs 1 HD
Using an Action Point with 2 attacks costs 2 HD (as you have to be minimum 5th level as a fighter to gain a second attack)

I don't understand this. I assume that "Action Point" refers to Action Surge, gained at 2nd level, so costing 1 HD. Check.
The second attack is unlimited use, so why does that Action Surge cost extra?
A fighter/wizard can Action Surge (1 HD) to cast Cone of Cold (3 HD), but under the above reasoning, you would instead charge the 3 HD twice.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Honestly I think the easiest solution is "Long Rests can only occur in a place of both safety and comfort." It's solves the overland travel encounter nova problem, and forces the party to actually leave the dungeon to rest and deal with the consequences on their next delve.

yeah in my gritty campagin I had short rests take 8 hours and require food, drink, and sleep... my long rests had to be someone safe with the above AND a form of entertainment and it took a week,

 

[Reynard]

yeah in my gritty campagin I had short rests take 8 hours and require food, drink, and sleep... my long rests had to be someone safe with the above AND a form of entertainment and it took a week,

I don't care about the time thing, except insofar that it kind of bugs me that 1st level adventurers can head to the dungeon and come back a week later 3rd or 4th level.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I don't understand this. I assume that "Action Point" refers to Action Surge, gained at 2nd level, so costing 1 HD. Check.
The second attack is unlimited use, so why does that Action Surge cost extra?

Because the system any other way is broken. The PC selects how much they are willing to exert their character.

A fighter/wizard can Action Surge (1 HD) to cast Cone of Cold (3 HD), but under the above reasoning, you would instead charge the 3 HD twice.

Why would it be 3 HD for the Action Surge. As a PC you'd select at what level you wish to utilise the ability. Since you only need it at the lowest level, you need only burn 1HD and the a further 3HD for the Cone of Cold - so 4 HD in total if you went this route.

Now imagine an 11th level fighter, burning 1 HD per round for 3 additional attacks. Its much too powerful that way. The PC decides at what level they are activating it at.