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D&D General My Best and Simplest Homebrew Rule: Nerfed Long Rests


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el-remmen

Moderator Emeritus
So in theory, my character could spend all his hit dice during the "short rest" period of the long rest, fall short of going back to full, and then in the morning take another immediate short rest and spend the dice I just got to top me off?

This is not a necessarily a critique. I have been playing with a version of what you suggest (not the spell slot stuff, just hps and hd) and this has kept me from implementing it - so I am trying to think it through.
I think what I came up with so far is, Short rests are cut to 30 minutes but otherwise work as normal. Long rests return half your max hps (so you could end up at max if you are only lightly hurt) and you can spend HD to get more but you can't regain more than half your level minus any you used this way.
 

Reynard

Legend
Supporter
Honestly I think the easiest solution is "Long Rests can only occur in a place of both safety and comfort." It's solves the overland travel encounter nova problem, and forces the party to actually leave the dungeon to rest and deal with the consequences on their next delve.
 

xiphumor

Legend
So in theory, my character could spend all his hit dice during the "short rest" period of the long rest, fall short of going back to full, and then in the morning take another immediate short rest and spend the dice I just got to top me off?

This is not a necessarily a critique. I have been playing with a version of what you suggest (not the spell slot stuff, just hps and hd) and this has kept me from implementing it - so I am trying to think it through.
I think what I came up with so far is, Short rests are cut to 30 minutes but otherwise work as normal. Long rests return half your max hps (so you could end up at max if you are only lightly hurt) and you can spend HD to get more but you can't regain more than half your level minus any you used this way.
… I’m confused as to where you’re seeing a loophole. Let’s give a scenario:

I have 6d8 hit dice and 51 hit points max, 2d8 hit dice and 20 hit points at present, +2 Con, and I settle down for a long rest:

1. I immediately spend my 2d8 to give me 16 hit points. I’m now at 36.

2. I regain 3d8 hit points from my long rest.

3. I roll 2d8 and get another 14 back. I’m now at 50/51 and decide that’s close enough.

4. I could spend my last hit die immediately, but for 1 hit point, it isn’t worth it, so I save it for after I take some damage.

That’s my system. I’m close to full, but have less ability to rest now.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
I guess some people play "you pick how many dice to roll, roll them, and that is it for the rest", and if you don't spend enough you risk being under max HP (and if you use too many you risk wasting HD).

Others don't do that, and let the player roll HD repeatedly until it comes up with enough HP (or low enough leftover damage that they don't care).

For the first case, taking a short rest after a long rest is not that useful (except, say, warlocks). For the second, it lets you optimize HD rolls better.
 

My story is designed around problems that span over 2-4 days. It means that the characters are tired after traveling to a new town and might need a slow day to recover. This also means that I can use more mundane, everyday threats in a meaningful way because the characters aren’t always at full power, and it encourages players to cycle between who’s doing the heavy lifting at any given time.

Granted, I’m still working out how the math for encounters work out, but my rule of thumb is that if the adventurers aren’t fresh, everything is about 1.5 times harder because they’re usually at 2/3 strength.
I prefer a grittier system for our table but not one that racks up weeks, so I played around a lot with resting and I found it easier to integrate features/powers/slots with HD.
I scrapped short rests altogether and implemented the 5 minute break which allows one to burn HD for hit points.

An 8 hour rest recovers 1 level of exhaustion and if one is not affected by any levels of exhaustion one recovers 1/2 their HD rounded up. That is all.

Level of a Feature/Power/Slots
Levels 1-4 cost 1 HD
Levels 5-8 costs 2 HD
Levels 9-12 costs 3 HD
Levels 13+ cost 4 HD

i.e. So using an Action Surge for 1 attack costs 1 HD
Using an Action Surge with 2 attacks costs 2 HD (as you have to be minimum 5th level as a fighter to gain a second attack)
One can use levels of exhaustion to substitute for HD (on a 1 level = 1 HD) when one's HD reaches 0.

Further rule if one falls unconscious from loss of hit points, one gains one level of exhaustion. It is gritty, simple and ties the abilities to HD (reserves) and the exhaustion track within the 5 framework. Also solves the pesky Leomund's Hut...etc

EDIT: Mistakenly wrote Action Point instead of Action Surge. Corrected. Thanks @Nutation.
 
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Nutation

Explorer
i.e. So using an Action Point for 1 attack costs 1 HD
Using an Action Point with 2 attacks costs 2 HD (as you have to be minimum 5th level as a fighter to gain a second attack)
I don't understand this. I assume that "Action Point" refers to Action Surge, gained at 2nd level, so costing 1 HD. Check.
The second attack is unlimited use, so why does that Action Surge cost extra?
A fighter/wizard can Action Surge (1 HD) to cast Cone of Cold (3 HD), but under the above reasoning, you would instead charge the 3 HD twice.
 

Honestly I think the easiest solution is "Long Rests can only occur in a place of both safety and comfort." It's solves the overland travel encounter nova problem, and forces the party to actually leave the dungeon to rest and deal with the consequences on their next delve.
yeah in my gritty campagin I had short rests take 8 hours and require food, drink, and sleep... my long rests had to be someone safe with the above AND a form of entertainment and it took a week,
 

Reynard

Legend
Supporter
yeah in my gritty campagin I had short rests take 8 hours and require food, drink, and sleep... my long rests had to be someone safe with the above AND a form of entertainment and it took a week,
I don't care about the time thing, except insofar that it kind of bugs me that 1st level adventurers can head to the dungeon and come back a week later 3rd or 4th level.
 

I don't understand this. I assume that "Action Point" refers to Action Surge, gained at 2nd level, so costing 1 HD. Check.
The second attack is unlimited use, so why does that Action Surge cost extra?
Because the system any other way is broken. The PC selects how much they are willing to exert their character.
A fighter/wizard can Action Surge (1 HD) to cast Cone of Cold (3 HD), but under the above reasoning, you would instead charge the 3 HD twice.
Why would it be 3 HD for the Action Surge. As a PC you'd select at what level you wish to utilise the ability. Since you only need it at the lowest level, you need only burn 1HD and the a further 3HD for the Cone of Cold - so 4 HD in total if you went this route.

Now imagine an 11th level fighter, burning 1 HD per round for 3 additional attacks. Its much too powerful that way. The PC decides at what level they are activating it at.
 

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