My 'Boys were Alive and Kicking - SD is out - GB down - NY for the win!!!

[kenobi65]

That's because the anti-Pats crowd is pretty much unhinged. There's no objective basis on which to even begin a discussion of the domination of this team and this franchise.

Indeed...I haven't seen this much venom against a team in a long while.

As I think about it, one additional reason I'd like to see Green Bay advance is that, otherwise, it'd likely be a New York vs. New England Super Bowl, and I'd like to remind sports fans in the Northeast Corridor that they do play professional sports in the rest of the country. (My god, I'm so sick of hearing about Red Sox-Yankees....)

 

[GlassJaw]

I havent hear much from Pat's fans here. As I mentioned earlier, if some team is to go undefeated and match the '72 Dolphins (year I was born by the way ) I would rather it be some team I like (of course my Cowboys would do nicely).

What really needs to be said?

They've already accomplished something no team has done (gone 16-0 in the regular season, the 72 Dolphins went 14-0) and have done it in an arguably much tougher league. The changes to free agency and the salary cap are HUGE. What the Patriots are doing now was supposed to be IMPOSSIBLE under the new rules.

On top of that, not only are they 2 wins away from having the greatest single season and being the greatest team in NFL history but also in all sports. Period.

The odds of them doing so are also heavily in their favor. They are favored by 2 TD's against a decimated Chargers teams who they handily beat earlier in the season (and when they were at full strength). They will go into the Superbowl favored by at least a TD, regardless who they play. They are also the most experienced team, top to bottom, remaining in the playoffs.

At this point, I don't really need to talk much more about the Pats. I'm just enjoying all the bitter sentiment against them in the rest of the country.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

On top of that, not only are they 2 wins away from having the greatest single season and being the greatest team in NFL history but also in all sports. Period

Wait...wait...

Huh?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Yeah, I'm a little curious on that point myself. Not saying I have any competing examples, just curious exactly what criteria went into that proclamation.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Yeah, good as they've been, there's been some basketball teams that have dominated their sport far more than the Pats have with football.

Especially seeing as how they'll lose in their eventual rematch with the Giants.

 

[GlassJaw]

Yeah, I'm a little curious on that point myself. Not saying I have any competing examples, just curious exactly what criteria went into that proclamation.

Extensive sports knowledge and full understanding of how difficult it is to do what the Patriots are doing given the current salary cap structure and free agent culture in the NFL.

All the great sports dynasties were able to maintain an iron grip on their players. They didn't have to deal with players demanding huge money as soon as they had one good season. The players have built their dynasty with smart drafting, superb scouting (Scott Pioli is the best in the league at this), coaching, bringing in veterans hungry to play for a winner, and team loyalty - Brady took a LOT less money so he wouldn't tie up a ton of cap space.

The Patriots are close to having one of the greatest seasons in sports history. That can't be disputed. The fact that they've done it in today's NFL is not supposed to happen. The cap structure was put into effect to ensure parity. The Patriots have single-handedly blown that concept up. They are the model franchise in all of sports.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Extensive sports knowledge and full understanding of how difficult it is to do what the Patriots are doing given the current salary cap structure and free agent culture in the NFL.

"Extensive sports knowledge" is not a criteria; that's an appeal to authority.

As for the actual criteria you appear to be using, I'd say that's evidence of coaching prowess, and management prowess, but really has nothing to do with an achievement of sport. I don't particularly care how a sports team is put together, the common frame of reference for the greatness of athletes is-- stay with me here-- their athletic performance.

None of which is to say that the Pats wouldn't be considered great on that criteria. I was expecting you to point to things like Moss and Brady's record-breaking season. I don't think I'm alone in expecting the criteria for "greatest team in all of sports" to refer to the actual sports being played.

If we're going to throw open the criteria for "greatness" to activities off the field, I'll start looking for charitable works, military service, delivering babies, fighting crime in Gotham, etc.

The Patriots are close to having one of the greatest seasons in sports history. That can't be disputed. The fact that they've done it in today's NFL is not supposed to happen. The cap structure was put into effect to ensure parity. The Patriots have single-handedly blown that concept up. They are the model franchise in all of sports.

I wouldn't dispute any of that, but I think in the end, when folks (outside of New England) talk about "the greatest teams in sports history" the why's and how's of how the team came together are an asterisk at best, and folks will tend to focus on the actual performance of the sport in question. Even great coaching is a footnote, except where it relates to encouraging the best performance from your team.

But then again I don't have the "extensive sports knowledge" to really give a about how hard it was to put the team together under the salary cap. Maybe someday they'll award trophies for that.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I don't understand how a team, any team, can be the greatest team in all sports unless they've played in ALL sports and proven it.

Otherwise, they can only qualify to be the greatest team of THEIR sport.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

Well, the cheating does have to factor in the conversation somewhere, doesn't it?

 

[kenobi65]

I don't understand how a team, any team, can be the greatest team in all sports unless they've played in ALL sports and proven it.

Otherwise, they can only qualify to be the greatest team of THEIR sport.

Even within a sport, comparisons across time can be challenging, and makes for great debates over beer. As GlassJaw notes, the NFL today isn't the same league as it was before free agency and the salary cap. When you add on the changes to rules over the years, and the advances in training and sports medicine, the comparisons become even more interesting.

And, record alone isn't necessarily the best yardstick...many experts believe that the undefeated 1972 Dolphins were not as good a team as they were a year later, when their record was "only" 12-2, but won the Super Bowl again. I've even read one guy who feels that the '96 Packers were the best team ever, because they were the only champion who had the #1 ranked offense as well as the #1 ranked defense. (Even as a Packer fan, I'm not sure I buy that argument, but you see that there's a lot of different yardsticks you could use.)

All that said...certainly, the Patriots have been the dominant NFL team of this decade, with three Super Bowl wins and an undefeated season. They'll almost undoubtedly be considered one of the all-time great teams, up there with the Cowboys of the '90s, the 49ers of the '80s, the Steelers of the '70s, and the Packers of the '60s.