My last LotR eagle question.

[KenM]

One thing that has bothered me about the LotR story is how JRRT has the giant eagles show up when it's convenent for Him to. One saves Gandalf when He is on top of Isengaurd[SP?], They also help Frodo and Sam near the end. But they never try to fly into Mordor on the eagles, with Gandalf protecting them with His magic. I want someone to post the line(s), with chapter and paragraghs in LotR say going in on the eagles would not work? I want only quotes from LotR, other works from JRRT does not count, as LotR should stand up on its own.
The bottom line is this: the writer of the story showed an eaiser way for them to solve the main plot point, but never explined in the story why the easier way would not work. But He uses that way when needed. I'm sorry, I think too much, but I can't "accept" the story unless its explained.

 

[shilsen]

I really need to make a copy of this, since I think this is the 4th time I've answered that question on ENWorld. Here goes:

Gandalf makes it clear during the council of Elrond that the way to get the Ring to Mount Doom has to be one of subterfuge. When Elrond suggests that Glorfindel, one of the most powerful elves in Middle-Earth, should be part of the Fellowship, Gandalf declines. He argues that Glorfindel's power is not sufficient to open a path to Mount Doom and that it would only draw Sauron's attention and lead to the recapture of the Ring.

The same is true of the Eagles. If Gandalf and the Fellowship flew into Mordor on a giant squadron of Eagles, Sauron would see them coming miles away and squash them like bugs. The Eagles never enter Mordorian airspace (sorry, couldn't resist ) until a moment when Sauron's attention is totally devoted to the Ring and Mount Doom. As for them beign protected by Gandalf's magic, at no point does Gandalf claim to be Sauron's equal. And by the time Gandalf achieves his full stature (post-Balrog), Frodo is already on the way into Mordor, so the Eagles are not an option at that point.

Does that answer your question?

 

[KenM]

He mentions Glorfindel yes, but the eagles are not mentioned, at all. IMO the eagles are just a plot device the author uses to get his characters out of bad situations, I HATE that. I would accept any explination on why it would not work, but none is given.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

He mentions Glorfindel yes, but the eagles are not mentioned, at all. IMO the eagles are just a plot device the author uses to get his characters out of bad situations, I HATE that. I would accept any explination on why it would not work, but none is given.

One of the tools of writing is implications. And besides, LotR is not its own story, it is simply a sequel to The Hobbit. IIRC, it is stated more than once how powerful the Eagles are in The Hobbit. So...all you have to do is THINK about it. Tolkien doesn't tell everything. I mean, c'mon! He leaves untranslated Elvish all through the book!

 

[KenM]

Tolkien doesn't tell everything. I mean, c'mon! He leaves untranslated Elvish all through the book!

Yes, but that stuff is not critical to the main plot.

 

[shilsen]

He mentions Glorfindel yes, but the eagles are not mentioned, at all. IMO the eagles are just a plot device the author uses to get his characters out of bad situations, I HATE that. I would accept any explination on why it would not work, but none is given.

They don't need to be mentioned. Once he makes the point that travelling to Mount Doom openly is not an option, he doesn't have to mention every possible way in which they could travel openly, one of which is the Eagles.

 

[Chauzu]

I don't think it needs to be mentioned because its so obvious why they didn't just fly in there.

 

[Templetroll]

I dont recall details in the book but I thought the Eagles had an attitude, they were brave but would not take on suicidal missions for others; at least not on a regular basis. They were brave and powerful but each instance their success was based on their sudden and surprising entrance.

 

[Salthanas]

One thing that has bothered me about the LotR story is how JRRT has the giant eagles show up when it's convenent for Him to. One saves Gandalf when He is on top of Isengaurd[SP?], They also help Frodo and Sam near the end. But they never try to fly into Mordor on the eagles, with Gandalf protecting them with His magic. I want someone to post the line(s), with chapter and paragraghs in LotR say going in on the eagles would not work? I want only quotes from LotR, other works from JRRT does not count, as LotR should stand up on its own.
The bottom line is this: the writer of the story showed an eaiser way for them to solve the main plot point, but never explined in the story why the easier way would not work. But He uses that way when needed. I'm sorry, I think too much, but I can't "accept" the story unless its explained.

Is'nt it rather "obvious" though why they can't use the eagles to simply fly to Mount Doom. Sauron would pretty much twig straight away what was going on if hordes of Eagles bearing Gandalf were spotted flying to Mount Doom from Rivendell. Once he knew what was going on its pretty much a given that that mission would have failed. Its also made explicitely clear in Tolkiens letters that if Sauron had been aware that there was an attempt to destroy the ring that the entrance to Mount Doom would be destroyed and blocked. This is what the Nazgul would have done if they had reached Mount Doom before the ring was destroyed (after trying to convince Frodo to leave the chamber that is). The only reason that Sauron does'nt bother doing this is because he simply cannot imagine anyone wanting to destroy the ring. Its the central premise for his downfall and thats something that you will find referenced all over the book

 

[KenM]

Its also made explicitely clear in Tolkiens letters....

This is one of the things that really bothers me about JRRT's writing. Things that should be made clear in the main story are in letters or Appenceses[SP?]. LotR as a story should stand on its own. I should not have go looking for an anwswer to a question I have about the story in something else the author wrote. JRRT showed an easier way for they to solve the main plot point with the eagles coming in when it is convenent for the authur to get the characters out of trouble. But he NEVER explains in the LotR books why going in on the eagles would not work.