This is one of the things that really bothers me about JRRT's writing. Things that should be made clear in the main story are in letters or Appenceses[SP?].
As a story it does stand on its own. Yes there are holes in the narrative. Well, not everything needs to be explained for the story to make sense. Maybe it doesn't make sense to you. You have a valid argument that the eagles are mainly use as a convenient device to help the plot along. It's debatable whether this is a flaw. I for one don't really care. It doesn't change the fact that the story stands on its own. You can read, enjoy, and admire without having every single option explained (at least I can). This kind of discussions and the fact that not evrything is explained actually add to the book. It gives us the opportunity to become creators and interpreters instead of 'just' readers.
I should not have go looking for an anwswer to a question I have about the story in something else the author wrote.
Well here we come to another point. Even though the story stands on its own. The Lord of the Rings as a chapter in the "history" of Middle Earth does not stand on its own and is as such a part of a larger body of work. This is the real strength of the work IMHO. You CAN go as deep as you want, but you don't have to.
JRRT showed an easier way for they to solve the main plot point with the eagles coming in when it is convenent for the authur to get the characters out of trouble. But he NEVER explains in the LotR books why going in on the eagles would not work.
Well, I see the eagles not being explained as a flaw. If I see a flaw in the logic of the story, then I can't "accept" the story. I know, i think too much. IMO JRRT should have spent less time explaing every blade of grass the characters walk by and tightened the narritive a bit.
I'm not sure if you're intentionally ignoring the posts above.
Tolkien explains multiple times through the LotR books (usually through Gandalf, but also others) that trying to get the Ring to Mount Doom openly or through force is futile. Thus, since the Eagles fall easily into both categories, he does end up explaining why it would not work. I assume you wanted the book to do the above in a sentence starting with "And flying in on the Eagles will not work because...". Correct?
I don't mean for them to attack the forces of Mordor once they get there, but eagles can fly fast. I never siad for them to attack, thats why you have Gandalf go with them to protect them, They fly in, Frodo drops the ring in. If JRRT uses the eagles in other ways, he can use them in this way. Seems logical to me. JRRT metions Mordor is too strong for convential forces to go in strong. But the eagles can fly high and dive in from a great height right over Mt. Doom.
I would expect to have someone mention about getting the eagles help, with either Gandalf or Elround saying. "that would not work because........" or " we tryed that and they would be drawn to them" or something like that. Yes IMO the eagles can make the characters jobs easier, and JRRT does not explin why they don't use them. He needed to explin it more.
Like someone else said, it does lead to fun discussion.
The Eagles were direct servants of the Valar as much as Gandalf himself. They were charged to help the people of Middle-Earth solve their Sauron problem, not solve it themselves. I think it was Saruman's desire to solve things himself that caused his downfall more than any other single factor.
Of course, it is also possible that Gandalf never really thought of using the Eagles in an "end run" against Sauron. Not every Wizard would think the same way a modern man would (in fact, I think Saruman was closest to this line of thought, and we all know how well HE fared). Perhaps the temptation to use the Ring on the way there, even on Eagle-back, may have been too great.
I don't mean for them to attack the forces of Mordor once they get there, but eagles can fly fast. I never siad for them to attack, thats why you have Gandalf go with them to protect them, They fly in, Frodo drops the ring in. If JRRT uses the eagles in other ways, he can use them in this way. Seems logical to me. JRRT metions Mordor is too strong for convential forces to go in strong. But the eagles can fly high and dive in from a great height right over Mt. Doom.
There are a few reasons why this wouldn't work, some of which have already been explained in previous posts.
1. Sauron can see just about damn near anything that's going on in ME, using either his power (the eye) or through the Palantir (just be glad it isn't one of the uber palantir, like the one at the gray havens). This being said, he'd notice a large squadron of eagles approaching Mordor from the air, and he would most likely deal with them in one of several ways.
a. Sauron has winged Nazgul. Very little information is given about the 'fell beasts' in the novel, but you can assume that they're pretty badass all around. Also, given that their riders are generally Nazgul, the eagles would probably have one hell of a welcoming committee if they somehow managed to get anywhere *near* Mt. Doom.
b. It has been well established that Sauron can identify sources of great power, with little apparent effort. This pretty much destroys the possibility of Gandalf, Glorfindel, or any of the high-powered elves from accompanying the 'air force.' Not only would they be met by Nazgul, but the full power of Sauron himself would likely be thrown against them. There's little question as to who would win in a pitched aerial battle over Mordor.
2. The ring corrupts. Even Gandalf himself, and Galadriel, arguably two of the most powerful beings in ME, have to muster their own force of will to keep from taking the ring, destroying Sauron, and taking his place as despot of ME. Elrond and Gandalf both are impressed with how easily the Hobbits seem to stave off the evil of the ring, but in the end,
even Frodo cannot cope with the power of the ring, and dons it instead of throwing it into the fire.
The ring's power of corruption grows exponentially stronger the closer one gets to Sauron. On the trip to Mt. Doom, who's to say that the ring might not corrupt one or all of the other members of this flying party? You would send these people with Frodo to 'protect' him from the forces of Sauron, but if Gandalf, or Glorfindel, or even Aragorn decided to take the ring from Frodo by force, there is nothing he could do to stop them.
I may continue this later if I get my second wind. The important thing is, not everything has to be explained for a book to make sense. Gandalf, Elrond, et. al. are considerably more wise than you, or I... I think it is safe to assume that they considered *all* possibilities before deciding to send a Hobbit into the den of evil alone.
Thing is...the ONLY times the Eagles are used are in when they are least expected or will encounter no resistance. While you may want to have some blatant stating of WHY the Eagles can't be used, there isn't one. There won't BE one. Implication is a valid literary tool, and its what's used with the Eagles. It is strongly implied that nothing powerful can just go openly to Mordor...and that's EXACTLY what the Eagles are.
The Eagles were direct servants of the Valar as much as Gandalf himself. They were charged to help the people of Middle-Earth solve their Sauron problem, not solve it themselves. I think it was Saruman's desire to solve things himself that caused his downfall more than any other single factor.
Of course, it is also possible that Gandalf never really thought of using the Eagles in an "end run" against Sauron. Not every Wizard would think the same way a modern man would (in fact, I think Saruman was closest to this line of thought, and we all know how well HE fared). Perhaps the temptation to use the Ring on the way there, even on Eagle-back, may have been too great.
Those are good points. Since JRRT did not like tech himself, He might never have thought that he had a logic flaw in his grand tale.
Someone else said that not everything in a book has to make sense, it does to me. if the writer/ teller of the story shows an easier way for the characters to accomplish they're goal, and does not explain why the characters does not use the eaiser way, then the story is flawed, and I can't accept it.
Here is an expample: say some peole have to get across a lake, the person that tells them they have to get across the lake shows up in a speedboat (like Gandalf got droped of at rivendale by an eagle.). He also says they don't have much time. So the characters start to swim across the lake. They don't use the speedboat and its never explained why they did not. That is how I feel about the eagles not helping in LoTR. I will not accept "dramatic effect" or "thats the way the author wrote it", there has to be logic to the characters actions.
So, when an eagle comes in to rescue Gandalf from the top of Isengaurd, NONE of the orcs/ goblins, ect. on the ground saw it or fired any arrows at it? I think there would have been resistance there. I also love how everyone says "the eagles are not a taxi service", But Gandalf clearly calls one to "pick him up" in FotR.
So, when an eagle comes in to rescue Gandalf from the top of Isengaurd, NONE of the orcs/ goblins, ect. on the ground saw it or fired any arrows at it? I think there would have been resistance there. I also love how everyone says "the eagles are not a taxi service", But Gandalf clearly calls one to "pick him up" in FotR.
