My monk--I want you to tear it up
- Thread starter DreamChaser
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DreamChaser
Explorer
thanks.
Fires Under Water
First Post
Woah!
Personally, I think this is a wee bit too powerful. The Monk looks balanced, sure, but you have to consider a comparison:
The Fighter, who gains 11 Bonus Feats + 1 Feat unique to them, pays for this by having only one good save, 2 Skill Points per Level, a rather crappy Skillset, and no other class benefits.
By comparison, your Monk has only 4/5ths the HP, true, but twice the skill points and a much better skill list, three times the number of good saves, the exact SAME number of bonus feats, psionics, and, did I mention, a BAB which isn't too shabby?
Sure, they can't use weapons and armor. Big deal. Your boy there can more than make up for that quite easily with his psionics and insane number of bonus feats. In fact, I'd say this Monk blows the PHB Monk outta the water, as far as powers go. While the PHB Monk has a set of powers which can be quite nice, your Monk has the ability to customize his needs based on what he wants, which makes him potentially more powerful.
Personally, I don't think this is at all balanced. If I were you, I'd probably halve the number of bonus feats (and get rid of the ludicrous 2 bonus feats at first level), and kick the Fortitude save out of the way, as well as further reducing the number of PPs, maybe dropping it another 20 points or so by Level 20.
Personally, I think this is a wee bit too powerful. The Monk looks balanced, sure, but you have to consider a comparison:
The Fighter, who gains 11 Bonus Feats + 1 Feat unique to them, pays for this by having only one good save, 2 Skill Points per Level, a rather crappy Skillset, and no other class benefits.
By comparison, your Monk has only 4/5ths the HP, true, but twice the skill points and a much better skill list, three times the number of good saves, the exact SAME number of bonus feats, psionics, and, did I mention, a BAB which isn't too shabby?
Sure, they can't use weapons and armor. Big deal. Your boy there can more than make up for that quite easily with his psionics and insane number of bonus feats. In fact, I'd say this Monk blows the PHB Monk outta the water, as far as powers go. While the PHB Monk has a set of powers which can be quite nice, your Monk has the ability to customize his needs based on what he wants, which makes him potentially more powerful.
Personally, I don't think this is at all balanced. If I were you, I'd probably halve the number of bonus feats (and get rid of the ludicrous 2 bonus feats at first level), and kick the Fortitude save out of the way, as well as further reducing the number of PPs, maybe dropping it another 20 points or so by Level 20.
DreamChaser
Explorer
If you take a look in the DMG though, you see that the power level of a character at any given level is partially based upon their magical weapons/armor. Four 20th level fighters without any magical weapons/armor is not even close to a match for a CR 20 creature. The damage resistance and attack bonus of the creature would eat them alive.
A monk gains no such benefit, which I feel severely limits their one on one battle capacity. Despite the appearance of great combat prowess, this monk is hard pressed to overcome damage resistance. At any level, a monk is at a disadvantage against many undead creatures, constructs, anything incorporeal, and aything with damage resistance.
I can see the dropping of one of the bonus feats at 1st level. My theory was to give them a chance to start building their style of martial art, but I think you could be right in terms of that balance at early levels.
Overall, despite this monk's apparent focus on combat, he is not a front-line warrior like the fighter. He can't be. He gains some potent abilities but they do have some significant blind spots. Some large enough that they may need to be addressed before the class is playable. Perhaps a ghost touch feat and a set of powers that grants enhancement bonuses to their unarmed attacks. Even then, they are a narrow range combatant.
Sometimes this class makes me think of the scene in Indiana Jones when the guy starts doing all sorts of martial arts intimidation moves, getting ready to attack Indie, so Indie pulls out his gun and shoots him. End of story.
DC
A monk gains no such benefit, which I feel severely limits their one on one battle capacity. Despite the appearance of great combat prowess, this monk is hard pressed to overcome damage resistance. At any level, a monk is at a disadvantage against many undead creatures, constructs, anything incorporeal, and aything with damage resistance.
I can see the dropping of one of the bonus feats at 1st level. My theory was to give them a chance to start building their style of martial art, but I think you could be right in terms of that balance at early levels.
Overall, despite this monk's apparent focus on combat, he is not a front-line warrior like the fighter. He can't be. He gains some potent abilities but they do have some significant blind spots. Some large enough that they may need to be addressed before the class is playable. Perhaps a ghost touch feat and a set of powers that grants enhancement bonuses to their unarmed attacks. Even then, they are a narrow range combatant.
Sometimes this class makes me think of the scene in Indiana Jones when the guy starts doing all sorts of martial arts intimidation moves, getting ready to attack Indie, so Indie pulls out his gun and shoots him. End of story.
DC
Fires Under Water
First Post
While I agree that if look at it without magical enhancement, this Monk doesn't do so well, you should look at the idea of un-magic'ed Fighters and un-magic'ed PHB Monks. These guys still mop the floor.
As for the problem of damage reduction... While this Monk can't get a magic weapon to use, he most certainly CAN get Magic Fang (or Greater Magic Fang, depending on the DM) permanented on himself. And then, the Monk would have a permanent +1. Certainly within the character's starting gold at certain levels or better.
However, to be fair, I'd suggest giving this Monk some form of ability which grants a small Damage Reduction or a Bonus... Remember, Damage Reduction works by granting the creature the ability to hurt DR of their own DR, so it'd be nice to have. And a Bonus is always nice.
As for the problem of damage reduction... While this Monk can't get a magic weapon to use, he most certainly CAN get Magic Fang (or Greater Magic Fang, depending on the DM) permanented on himself. And then, the Monk would have a permanent +1. Certainly within the character's starting gold at certain levels or better.
However, to be fair, I'd suggest giving this Monk some form of ability which grants a small Damage Reduction or a Bonus... Remember, Damage Reduction works by granting the creature the ability to hurt DR of their own DR, so it'd be nice to have. And a Bonus is always nice.
DreamChaser
Explorer
in any situation where my monk comes upon an equal-level fighter without any magical weapons or armor, he will wipe the floor with him, definitely. If he comes upon an equal level fighter with magical weapons, he is probably in trouble. If he encounters a fighter in any anti-magic field (my campaign has transparency), then my monk is screwed. He can't use his powers or his psionic feats. Many of his other feats still function but the core of the fighter is unaffected.
I think that there are a few psionic feats that could be developed for this:
Enhanced Strike [Psionic]
Your unarmed attacks gain an enhancement bonus.
Prerequisites: Strength 13+, Psionic Fist, Power point reserve 5+
Benefit: Your unarmed attacks gain an enhancement bonus of +1. You must have a power point reserve of 5 in order to gain this benefit.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time the enhancement bonus increases by +1 and the power point reserve increases by +11. So a monk who took this feat 5 times would have a +5 when her power point reserve was 49 or more; +4 when her reserve was 38 or more, +3 when her reserve was 27 or more; +2 when her reserve was 16 or more; and +1 when her reserve was 5 or more.
Spirit Strike [Psionic]
Your unarmed attacks can affect incorporeal targets.
Prerequisites: Strength 13+, Psionic Fist, Enhanced Strike, Power point reserve 17+
Benefit: You have the ghost touch ability with your unarmed attacks. You must have a power point reserve of 17 in order to gain this benefit.
Energy Strike [Psionic]
Your unarmed attacks gain cause energy damage.
Prerequisites: Strength 13+, Psionic Fist.
Benefit: Choose 1 energy type. When you spend 5 pp, your body is charged with this energy; your next unarmed attack (including trips and grapples) deals an added +1d6 points of damage of the chosen energy type. The decision to use this ability must be made before the attack roll is made; the energy charge lasts a number of rounds equal to the your Strength modifier or until used.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you gain another energy type that can be used.
These feats would allow the monk to gain some of the benefits of weapons but at a cost. All three would be added to the monk bonus feat list.
I think that there are a few psionic feats that could be developed for this:
Enhanced Strike [Psionic]
Your unarmed attacks gain an enhancement bonus.
Prerequisites: Strength 13+, Psionic Fist, Power point reserve 5+
Benefit: Your unarmed attacks gain an enhancement bonus of +1. You must have a power point reserve of 5 in order to gain this benefit.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time the enhancement bonus increases by +1 and the power point reserve increases by +11. So a monk who took this feat 5 times would have a +5 when her power point reserve was 49 or more; +4 when her reserve was 38 or more, +3 when her reserve was 27 or more; +2 when her reserve was 16 or more; and +1 when her reserve was 5 or more.
Spirit Strike [Psionic]
Your unarmed attacks can affect incorporeal targets.
Prerequisites: Strength 13+, Psionic Fist, Enhanced Strike, Power point reserve 17+
Benefit: You have the ghost touch ability with your unarmed attacks. You must have a power point reserve of 17 in order to gain this benefit.
Energy Strike [Psionic]
Your unarmed attacks gain cause energy damage.
Prerequisites: Strength 13+, Psionic Fist.
Benefit: Choose 1 energy type. When you spend 5 pp, your body is charged with this energy; your next unarmed attack (including trips and grapples) deals an added +1d6 points of damage of the chosen energy type. The decision to use this ability must be made before the attack roll is made; the energy charge lasts a number of rounds equal to the your Strength modifier or until used.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you gain another energy type that can be used.
These feats would allow the monk to gain some of the benefits of weapons but at a cost. All three would be added to the monk bonus feat list.
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DreamChaser
Explorer
another consideration:
my monk has absolutely no ranged attacks at all (barring Far Punch). She must close with her enemy in order to be effective. Especially against larger opponents, this could be devistating. She also lacks any reach ability.
my monk has absolutely no ranged attacks at all (barring Far Punch). She must close with her enemy in order to be effective. Especially against larger opponents, this could be devistating. She also lacks any reach ability.
