My PCs are horrible people!

[MGibster]

In the Deadlands campaign a player shocked the heck out of me by doing the following. She did, with malice and foresight, sneak up to her newborn infant child and snap its neck. Granted, she was convinced her baby was a hell spawn, but damn. You want to talk a PC being a horrible person...

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=51930]fireinthedust[/MENTION]
So you're running a Conan- style swords & sorcery game with starvation rules and an impending zombie apocalypse...and you're wondering why the PCs are behaving like gallant knights? No offense but, being cutthroat and mercenary seems to go hand in hand with that style of game.

 

[fireinthedust]

they don't know it's coming, and when it does I was hoping to see the survivalist fear hit them. Instead, they're already there so there's really no point in springing it on them.

Fair points. I've got the game tomorrow night. I'll update here if there are any developments, or if it was just a one-shot thing.

 

[haakon1]

The NPCs aren't real at all, and unless the players get a tangible benefit from helping them they are likely not to.

As a DM, if one of my players said this, I'd be terribly sad. I build my NPC's as people, just like PC's. If the characters (PC or NPC) are seen as just pawns on a chessboard, I'd feel like I failed in building the story, suspension of disbelief, all that . . .

So I'd most likely just shut down the whole campaign and not invite a player with that attitude to ever play again.

Actually, yeah, I kinda did that once, with players who were kinda like that -- one suggested eating dead peasants (killed by orcs) so they didn't have to buy rations. That was the first and last session of that campaign, and I never gamed with 3 of the 4 people there again.

Heck, I didn't try DMing for a new group for a few years after that.

 

[David Howery]

have random 0-level people explode when they die, damaging everyone nearby. Give no explanation for it. That might make them back down on the slaughter a bit...

 

[imurphy943]

As a DM, if one of my players said this, I'd be terribly sad. I build my NPC's as people, just like PC's. If the characters (PC or NPC) are seen as just pawns on a chessboard, I'd feel like I failed in building the story, suspension of disbelief, all that . . .

That's my point. I have never known anybody to care about NPCs unless they were a DM or the NPCs in question were valuable henchmen. It is really impossible to create NPCs that are even half as detailed as PCs, because each PC has the player's personality behind it, whereas you have to play all the NPCs with just one personality; they turn out all the same or as cookie-cutter archetypes. Hitting that wall, that glass ceiling, was the hardest part for me. All the work I put into that aspect of the game wasted.

You still care about them because you've put as much as you have into them, but from a player's point of view they still don't matter. In my experience, D&D is an outlet for all the urges that remain ungratified in society, principly creativity and agency, but also frequently aggression and greed. And as I see it, it is much better to let those out in the game and be altruistic in the real world than the inverse.

 

[S'mon]

D&D is an outlet for all the urges that remain ungratified in society, principly creativity and agency, but also frequently aggression and greed. And as I see it, it is much better to let those out in the game and be altruistic in the real world than the inverse.

Humans don't work like that.

 

[Elf Witch]

That's my point. I have never known anybody to care about NPCs unless they were a DM or the NPCs in question were valuable henchmen. It is really impossible to create NPCs that are even half as detailed as PCs, because each PC has the player's personality behind it, whereas you have to play all the NPCs with just one personality; they turn out all the same or as cookie-cutter archetypes. Hitting that wall, that glass ceiling, was the hardest part for me. All the work I put into that aspect of the game wasted.

You still care about them because you've put as much as you have into them, but from a player's point of view they still don't matter. In my experience, D&D is an outlet for all the urges that remain ungratified in society, principly creativity and agency, but also frequently aggression and greed. And as I see it, it is much better to let those out in the game and be altruistic in the real world than the inverse.

I think it depends on the players and how immersed they are in the world. Most of the people I play with don't view NPCs as different then PCs.

Personally I won't play with a player who takes that view that NPCs are not as real as their PC. That is not saying I have not played with players who had selfish PCs who didn't care for anyone but themselves. They had the potential to treat everyone equally bad PCs and NPCs alike.

I would not want to play with people who were using gaming as a way to explore their darksides in every game. I want to enjoy playing a hero and exploring actually being able to make a difference something that is very hard to do in real life. Sure I have played darker characters. And that can be fun but I rarely played characters that are so evil that they would buy slaves as dragon bait. I might run and save myself and leave people to their fate. I might sell some one out for money.

When NPCs are treated like this it is because in the players eyes they are not real they are just an encounter to gain XP. Which is one way to play but that seems more hack and slash style then a game with a more story telling aspect to it.

 

[Lwaxy]

That's my point. I have never known anybody to care about NPCs unless they were a DM or the NPCs in question were valuable henchmen. It is really impossible to create NPCs that are even half as detailed as PCs, because each PC has the player's personality behind it, whereas you have to play all the NPCs with just one personality; they turn out all the same or as cookie-cutter archetypes.

That's nonsense. My NPCs are, de facto, GM PCs, and all those that show up regularly are very detailed, level up, get prestige classes, do stupid and clever things etc. I never had a player complain about them not being real enough.

I would also not invite anyone back who is not treating the NPCs as "real."

 

[Zhaleskra]

I had an NPC I intended to be a recurring character, and my players in that game cared more about "him" than I expected them to. And this NPC? A 9 year old child.