My PCs went to Thay! I wasn’t expecting this! Help!

[d12]

Thanks for all of your replies, they have really been helpful. I’ve never run a game at this high a level so this is new territory for me.

First, a little background on my PCs.

The 15th level sorcerer is a svrifneblin. So, his ECL is 18. In addition to having limited wish, firebrand (errata version!), true seeing and a host of other powerful spells at his disposal, he also has an SR of 26 and about 104 hp plus his other svirfneblin powers. He’s pretty tough thanks to a good draw on a deck of many things.

The arcane archer does something like 1d8+11 damage at a minimum. Against humans or within 30 feet he does more. When he casts hunter’s mercy, he’s unreal. He once killed a healthy beholder with one shot from around a corner (and that was 2 or 3 levels ago).

These are only the two most powerful PCs. The others aren’t shabby either – a cleric, a druid (with awakened tiger companion) and a fighter.

Lately, I’ve come to realize that this group isn’t challenged at all by creatures of CR equal to their level. Last week they took out:
CR 16 – no problem
2 CR 15s in one combat – no problem

It wasn’t even interesting. The players are smart and the PCs can do so many things and absorb so much damage.



So now they’ve come to Thay.

When they came through the portal to Thay, they took out 4 minor wizards and 8 guards in one round. The Red Wizard “in charge” of the portal came in from the next room in time to join the battle along with his nightmare beast. He saw first hand just how quickly the PCs took out the guards, the nightmare beast and then chased him off [and he had a host of protective spells up]. He knows the PCs are capable of powerful magic and are deadly fighters to boot.

So, he teleports off to find his two business associates – another 15th level red wizard and a 16th level cleric.

Wizard #1: Hey guys, some very powerful group just came through our portal. They killed the nightmare beast and all the guards. They almost killed me. This is bad. If anyone finds out, our reputations will be ruined.

Wizard #2: We’ve got to stop them now but we’ve got to be quiet about it. Cost is no object.

Cleric: I’ll go ask my god to send us some “quiet” help. It will be expensive but we have to preserve our venture.


So, the cleric can bring out up to 24 HD of outsiders with a Greater Planar ally spell. What he gets are two 12-HD Kelevzu – each a CR 18. The 2 Kelevzu get buffing spells from the cleric and wizards [improved invisibility, stoneskin, bull’s str, endurance, owl’s wisdom, cat’s grace, protection from elements] and take off via teleport without error to go clean house.

I think this will be a very tough encounter for the PCs. It might be too much but they might also pull it off. If things are going badly, there are two PCs that can teleport the entire party away. I’m not doing this because the PCs went somewhere I wasn’t expecting. I’m doing this because Red Wizards are evil, nasty cowards who believe in overkill. I want the players to get a feeling that they’ve stepped somewhere challenging to say the least. They might relish the challenge, loot some of Tyraturos and go home. Maybe they’ll stage a slave revolt. Maybe they’ll quickly explore the building they are in and go home before the Kelevzu even arrive (which will take 12-15 minutes). I’d be happy with any of those as long as my players are having fun.

I’m not trying to kill the PCs – the Red Wizards are. And, even if I was trying to knock off a few PCs…. Well, death is only an inconvenience at this level. They are a few True Resurrections from being back in the game.

 

[dagger]

One of his business partners might use the opportunity to have the wizard eliminated..... He could actually help the PCs......

 

[Gregor]

I had an idea.

If your group is crazy powerful and you are thinking of throwing an EL 20 at them, why not simply reduce the power of the group and then come after them? In regards to what Art Q said, I would tend to agree. That seems like an over reaction to the intruders. Why not play the wizards a little more cunning and evil?

For example, force the party to split up, have the red wizards capture one of the party members, hold him as bargaining bait and / or torture him for information. As your party navigates the maze of slave mines and such have them picked off one at a time by invisible wizards etc.

If a bunch of adventurers poured through a portal into Thay, the Red Wizards are going to think "political catastrophe! spies, assassins". They are going to do their best to extract information from them or maybe place them in a compromising situation such as tricking them into a geas and using them as their political agents (due to their power) against a neighbour.

All in all though, you have a wealth of opportunities to make your PCs scared and / or dead! Have fun!

Cheers,

 

[Storminator]

I think you've got it exactly right d12. The guy has seen what they can do, he's using his close partners (keeping it quiet), he's using great tactics (ie, no risk to himself, just a couple of hopped up outsiders), he's hitting them like a ton of bricks, and he's doing it right now.

That's exactly how I see an RW reacting.

As for whether or not that's fair to your players, I can't see an RW caring. Overkill is the best reaction as far as he's concerned. And its best if your players learn not to **** with Thay!

PS

 

[d12]

plus, my players know that I will sometimes put them up against stuff they can't beat.

 

[sithramir]

I'm confused. You just said you've got a svirfneblin wizard 15? That's 18th level. You didn't state the levels of everyone else but if its equal to his then theres something wrong. They SHOULD smite a cr 16 or 2 cr 15's pretty quickly. a CR 18 should take 20% of their resources.

Having them fight a CR 20 monster shouldn't be that tough. It should be a decent battle, but they'll win. I have to put up monsters CR 3 (with good buffs like you did) to get a decent combat against typical PC's when its only one creature. So I wouldn't be surprised if the PC's surprise you by whomping on that guy once they see him since he looks invis.

I'd make a suggestion to throw a couple lower level guys to go with the demon. Sort of like the leaders "i'll trust you just this once lower level guy". And if things ended up TOO powerful make an inhouse dispute where the demon disagreed with the temporary leader to allow the PC's a little leeway to either escape or grab some advantage.

 

[d12]

sorry, everyone else is 14th level. The deep gnome began life a few levels lower than everyone else and then drew a lot of xp out of a deck of many things.

 

[Beelzebub]

Ahh, that dammed deck! I remember when My game went from 9th level to 11th level in one session! (Also went from 6 PCs to 3 PCs )
A flying/ invisible/ silenced wizard backing those feinds up might not be a bad idea, even if he's a couple of levels lower. Hmm, it would be a shame if the party was ambushed in a trapped area of the house

 

[ZSutherland]

d12,

While I liked many of the ideas posted by others, I don't have a problem dropping the bricks on your PCs either. However, someone mentioned traps in the house. These are bad, nasty high level red wizards, right? Surely the house is a death fest in and of itself.

It might help us to know what kind of RW's they are, especially the one they already faced. What're their specilizations and what are their proscribed schools?

Z

 

[d12]

I haven’t stated out the wizards yet but they’re probably going to be enchantment specialists.

No big traps in the building itself – they mostly count on the personnel to guard the place. There’s eight hill giants downstairs in the cell area to guard the potential slaves. There is also a secret vault full of platinum but its hidden. The vault is in an extra dimensional space accessed via some mundane-looking object with a Nystul’s undetectable aura cast on it. The vault is guarded by an iron golem, walls of force and traps keyed to prismatic spells. Of course, they’ll have to find it first. And if they find the object the vault is hidden in an decide to stick it in their bag of holding……oh boy!