D&D General My "Perfect D&D" Would Include...

My "Perfect D&D" Would include...

  • Alignment

    Votes: 41 39.0%
  • Species as Class

    Votes: 7 6.7%
  • Species Class and Level Limits

    Votes: 7 6.7%
  • "Kits"

    Votes: 17 16.2%
  • Prestige Classes

    Votes: 24 22.9%
  • Class Archetypes

    Votes: 51 48.6%
  • Open Multiclassing (ie not limited by species)

    Votes: 54 51.4%
  • Psionics (as a separate, distinct magic subsystem)

    Votes: 37 35.2%
  • Paragon Paths

    Votes: 20 19.0%
  • "Encounter Abilities" in some form

    Votes: 26 24.8%
  • Complex Martials

    Votes: 50 47.6%
  • Advantage/Disadvantage

    Votes: 67 63.8%
  • Save or Die/Suck effects

    Votes: 29 27.6%
  • Level Drain

    Votes: 23 21.9%
  • Rulership/Leadership rules

    Votes: 48 45.7%
  • Warfare Rules

    Votes: 45 42.9%
  • Paths to immortality

    Votes: 21 20.0%
  • 20 levels or less

    Votes: 52 49.5%
  • 20 levels or more

    Votes: 21 20.0%
  • Epic Level Rules (distinct from pre-epic advancement)

    Votes: 24 22.9%
  • Narrow species choices

    Votes: 25 23.8%
  • Broad species choices

    Votes: 33 31.4%
  • Quadratic Wizards

    Votes: 8 7.6%
  • Grid based combat

    Votes: 54 51.4%
  • Theater of the mind based combat

    Votes: 57 54.3%
  • Skill Challenges

    Votes: 48 45.7%
  • Detailed Travel/Journey Rules

    Votes: 61 58.1%
  • Detailed Social Rules/Social "combat"

    Votes: 33 31.4%
  • Skills

    Votes: 90 85.7%
  • Feats

    Votes: 67 63.8%
  • Categorical Sving throws (AD&D)

    Votes: 9 8.6%
  • 3 Saves (Fort, Ref, Will)

    Votes: 40 38.1%
  • Ability based Saves

    Votes: 35 33.3%
  • Proficiency Bonus

    Votes: 50 47.6%
  • XP from treasure

    Votes: 30 28.6%
  • XP from combat

    Votes: 36 34.3%
  • XP from story

    Votes: 64 61.0%
  • Player facing item creation rules

    Votes: 35 33.3%
  • Templates (for monsters)

    Votes: 50 47.6%
  • Random treasure tables

    Votes: 53 50.5%
  • Something I forgot

    Votes: 33 31.4%

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
this means like herbalism kit or disguse kit right?
Kits were a thing in 2e, here is a pretty good thread on them. The first couple posts in that link do a good job of explaining them without getting into the crunch of 2e itself. those are almost certainly the kits in question
Kits were originally introduced in Complete Fighter and were designed to be a way to further customize characters to a specific concept, without having to create whole new classes. So you'd pick a class and then pick a kit from the list of kits for that class - a fighter could be an Amazon or a Beastrider or a Barbarian or a Savage, while a wizard could be a Savage Wizard or a Militant Wizard or a Noble Wizard, and a thief could be a Smuggler or an Assassin or a Troubleshooter.
Each was a package of abilities - typically one special benefit, one special hindrance, a couple of bonus Non Weapon Proficiencies, and often a recommended weapon. Quite often there are reaction roll modifiers to other characters.

The kits do vary greatly from just being cool concepts, to pretty over the top: some of the dodgier ones include the elven Bladesinger kit, the bard Blade and the 3-armed tree ranger from the Ranger's Handbook. Some of the fancier classes (particularly Bard) had kits which radically redesign the class; a bard kit is basically a wholly different type of bard and loses all the standard bard powers for a completely different list of special abilities - like a blade (guy who shows off weapons skills) getting defensive spin and ambidexterity, instead of the normal song abilities. A number of the kits allowed unusual races to pick up a class, as long as they took a kit e.g. dwarves could be Bards if they took the Chanter kit, and halflings could be Ranger/Explorers.

Kits were initially largely for single-classed characters; the race handbook's however include a number of kits available to multiclassed characters. Skills & Powers had a list of rebalanced kits which were available to all character classes (and regardless of multiclassing) as well. Planescape noted that only 'Prime' characters had kits - they got these instead of choosing a Faction.


One of the design decisions that went into 2e was the insistence on keeping the number of actual classes small, usually limiting them to just those found in the PH. Kits were a way of compensating for that self-imposed limitation by giving people specific builds to customize those basic classes. Therefore instead of having a Barbarian class, you could apply a barbarian-flavored kit to the Fighter class, or so the logic went. Many discrete classes from 1e became kits in 2e, added to whichever basic class they were seen to be most like. The 3e designers reversed that trend and made them either full classes or prestige classes, leaving kits a uniquely 2e thing.

In theory, a kit's additional benefits were supposed to be counterbalanced by specific drawbacks so that adding a kit would not make the class objectively better than the base class. In practice the authors of 2e were only loosely acquainted with balance as a concept, they often got carried away with the coolness of a given concept, and power creep was a thing. As a result, you were often better off taking a kit than not.

In a way they would probably be very useful for setting localization type things that could be applied blanketed across the classes without having the kind of pushback from players that tends to come with "x class is not allowed" even if nobody planned to play x.
 

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In particular I take issue with point #5 where it seems you want to do away with the zero-to-hero journey, which to me (and backed by the levelling progression in all editions) has always been the basic point of the whole exercise.
No, that's a misunderstanding on your part.

OD&D was designed so Wizards were zero-to-hero, and everyone else wasn't. LFQW was an intentional design choice. A really dumb one, but an intentional one.

1E/2E/3E were pretty similar to that. 4E wasn't, and 5E tones it down a tone.

I want all classes to be equal amounts of zero-to-hero, not some classes having it way more.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
Players and DM who show up 90% + of the time. And the Budwiser Swedish Bikini Team to help me roll dice.
HEY YOU STATE OUT MY FANTASY D&D.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
In particular I take issue with point #5 where it seems you want to do away with the zero-to-hero journey, which to me (and backed by the levelling progression in all editions) has always been the basic point of the whole exercise.
No, that'd be me.

I am so tired of sad farmboys failing their way through the first half of the movie with the corpse of Campbell strapped around their necks. I'm calling on a five year moratorium on zero-to-hero and a quota for competence pron instead.
 


Reynard

Legend
looking at the list and was wondering how the game's dynamic would shift without exp from combat.
It would depend on where it came from, i think. If it comes from gold, you encourage a more old school playstyle. If it comes from story, you encourage more of a Hickman playstyle. If it comes from milestones, you encourage a rollercoaster* playstyle. If it comes from discovery, you encourage a more sandbox playstyle. Of course, encouragement doesn't guarantee behavior. It's D&D and 90% of a character's abilities are focused on combat, so they'll still fight.

*I use "rollercoaster" instead of "railroad" because rollercoasters are fun!
 





Clint_L

Hero
It would depend on where it came from, i think. If it comes from gold, you encourage a more old school playstyle. If it comes from story, you encourage more of a Hickman playstyle. If it comes from milestones, you encourage a rollercoaster* playstyle. If it comes from discovery, you encourage a more sandbox playstyle. Of course, encouragement doesn't guarantee behavior. It's D&D and 90% of a character's abilities are focused on combat, so they'll still fight.

*I use "rollercoaster" instead of "railroad" because rollercoasters are fun!
This is not how I use milestone progression. The milestones aren't predetermined - the party just levels up when it feels right. It's kind of a mutual agreement thing. So there's no railroad or rollercoaster involved. Rollercoasters are fun, though!
 

Weapon vs. Armor Type modifiers. Or Armor vs. Damage Type. Whichever. I loved that. Anything that makes combat more realistic and less cinematic by default.
I'd also like to see a return to fewer spells for low-level spellcasters. Maybe fewer spells in general. I'm tired of every Player's Handbook having 100+ pages of magic rules and spells lists--the toys of the caster classes--while there are fewer than half a dozen pages given to weapons and armor--the toys of the "martial" classes.
 



In my perfect D&D, every person who plays this game will control their own destiny. A game of the truly free! A game of declaring action, not spewing words; ruled by judgement, not rule sets! Where the rules change to suit the individual, not the other way around. Where power and rules are back where they belong: in the hands of the people! Where every player is free to think - to play - for themselves! The strongest tables will thrive - free to play as they see fit. In my perfect D&D, PCs will die and kill for what they BELIEVE! Not for gold. not for exp! Not to gain inspiration. Every PC will be free to undertake their own quests!
 

Kits, Prestige class (and epic destinys) class archtype (I am thinking of it and kits like modern warlock 2 choices) psionics (as seprate) paragon paths, encounter abilities, complex martials, Advantage disadvantage, SoD/SoS effects (for everyone) level drain (mostly like 3e not 2e), leadership rules, paths to immortality (maybe through epic destiny) 20levels or more (I would love for each class to have 30+ levels with the DM having any point they can cap for the next one) Epic rules (so you can do Epic 6, Epic 10, or EPic 30 or anywhere between), Broad species choices, Theater of the mind combat (with OPTIONAL grid) Detailed travel/journey, Detailed social rules, skills, feats, 3 saves (or defenses or maybe 3 defenses and 2 saves...) prof bonus, xp from treasure combat and story, player facing item creation, templates for monsters, and random treasure tables

Over all I will add LESS hp then 3e/4e/5e but slightly more then 2e... and front loaded (like 4e) HD as the main healing mechanic (spend HD or heal as if you spent HD)

I have tried to design this like 100 times and failed, but basicly the unholy love child of 2e 4e and a bit of 5e is what I want...

my most resent attempt had me take artificer and warlock as my base classes refluff and rebuild them into fighter thief and magic user with a prof bonus equal to 1/3 level and a non prof bonus equal to 1/5 level and an 'expertise' of 1/2 level and 'mastery' as 1/2 level+1 everyone starts with 3HD and gets a HD at odd levels not even (where you get a set +1/+2/+3) you don't get con bonus to hp BUT you get con bonus to HD spent to heal...
 

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