My player is squishing everything.

[Mistwell]

For what it is worth, the "enlarge item" is itself in the Magic Item Compendium I believe. Belt of Growth.

Personally I think this is a very creative use of a combination of things, and you should reward that creativity, unless it actually harms your game. So I agree with adding things like reflex saves, immobility on impact for the PC, and that sort of stuff, but I wouldn't do the "you take the same damage you give" rule as that feels more like a punishment.

 

[billd91]

Right - I was wondering about that x8 formula myself.

From the SRD (for weapons and armor):

The Enlarge Person spell doubles a character's size, thus multiplying the weight by 8. I would venture that's where the figure comes from. And I have to say, I think it applies better than the rule for large armor does since it's a magic effect that double's something's size and girth and not a suit of armor already made to be large.

The difference between a suit of armor that's built to be large and one built to be medium is the amount of material used to cover the wearer, not its thickness. You need more rings for the chainmail, more shaped steel for the breastplate, etc. But each of those is most likely the same size and thickness as the ones from medium armor. But the Enlarge Person spell doubles the size, and presumably, girth through magical means, just as it does the actual person. So it makes sense for the armor's weight to be doubled the same way.

Note also that the spell says that equipment worn or carried is similarly enlarged, which implies the weight is multiplied by 8. So I can definitely see where the idea is coming from...

 

[Elethiomel]

The Enlarge Person spell doubles a character's size, thus multiplying the weight by 8. I would venture that's where the figure comes from. And I have to say, I think it applies better than the rule for large armor does since it's a magic effect that double's something's size and girth and not a suit of armor already made to be large.

The difference between a suit of armor that's built to be large and one built to be medium is the amount of material used to cover the wearer, not its thickness. You need more rings for the chainmail, more shaped steel for the breastplate, etc. But each of those is most likely the same size and thickness as the ones from medium armor. But the Enlarge Person spell doubles the size, and presumably, girth through magical means, just as it does the actual person. So it makes sense for the armor's weight to be doubled the same way.

Note also that the spell says that equipment worn or carried is similarly enlarged, which implies the weight is multiplied by 8. So I can definitely see where the idea is coming from...

I disagree. The spell is made to be useful, not to make people immobile with the weight of their armour. Armour that is that thick and heavy is useless.

 

[irdeggman]

The Enlarge Person spell doubles a character's size, thus multiplying the weight by 8. I would venture that's where the figure comes from. And I have to say, I think it applies better than the rule for large armor does since it's a magic effect that double's something's size and girth and not a suit of armor already made to be large.

The difference between a suit of armor that's built to be large and one built to be medium is the amount of material used to cover the wearer, not its thickness. You need more rings for the chainmail, more shaped steel for the breastplate, etc. But each of those is most likely the same size and thickness as the ones from medium armor. But the Enlarge Person spell doubles the size, and presumably, girth through magical means, just as it does the actual person. So it makes sense for the armor's weight to be doubled the same way.

Note also that the spell says that equipment worn or carried is similarly enlarged, which implies the weight is multiplied by 8. So I can definitely see where the idea is coming from...

Interesting since the spell also references table 2-2 of the DMG for "increased damage". And in the same paragraph containing table 2-2 it states that "The PHB discusses the effect of size on weight and cost.. .. . .double it (weight) for Large versions"

So I'm inclined to think that this is how weapons and armor are supposed to be effected by the spell and only the person's weight increases by a factor of 8 (which coincidentally does not effect encumbrance at all - that is a person't weight has no effect on his own encumbrance).

This also fits in with theinfor from the Rules Compendium on Encumbrance (pg 47)

A Large creature can carry more weight (x2) - which if doubling the wieght of everythng being carried will have the end result of the character still having the same level of encrumbrance as before being enlarged - which makes sense all around.

 

[billd91]

A Large creature can carry more weight (x2) - which if doubling the wieght of everythng being carried will have the end result of the character still having the same level of encrumbrance as before being enlarged - which makes sense all around.

It may make sense that way, but the x8 weight isn't without reasonable support. A DM might be well advised to assume that the increase in size is more akin to adding more material of the same sort rather than increasing its size, thus keeping the weight down to double, for any number of reasons inclusing ease of administration and keeping the PC from using his weight as a lethal weapon.

But if spells like mass enlarge person and righteous might (a spell I have come to despise) are getting you down, the other interpretation reels in the craziness by slowing the PCs down a bit. The spell description give you the room to interpret it either way.

 

[Jack Simth]

Right - I was wondering about that x8 formula myself.

The x8 formula comes from the spell Enlarge Person:

This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature’s size category to the next larger one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a –2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a –1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. This spell does not change the target’s speed.

If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the creature attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it— the spell cannot be used to crush a creature by increasing its size.

All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee and projectile weapons affected by this spell deal more damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature’s possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage, and projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.

Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack,.

Enlarge person counters and dispels reduce person.

Enlarge person can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron.

(Emphasis added)

 

[Aleolus]

OK, here's an idea. A fighter using a Scythe and a mage. The mage casts a spell that creates an illusory double of each of them, and then uses Ghost Sound or a similar spell to speak to the party without revealing which group is the real one. He then goes to squish one group, only to find it is the illusion one! He is then rendered helpless until his next turn. The fighter goes up with his Scythe and Power Attacks a Coup de Grace against him. With a two-handed weapon, PA increases damage dealt by two points for every point of BAB you take off. So here's how it breaks down.

Fighter with a 20 Str. Deals 1.5 times your Str damage, since it's a two-handed weapon. Scythe has a Crit multiplier of x4. A coup de grace is an auto-crit, max damage, and if they survive the attack, they have to make a Fort save against death. Scythe deals 2d4 base damage, so that's 8, plus 8 (1.5 Str), plus the 10 damage for sacrificing 5 points of your BAB, times 4 for a Crit. 16+10x4=104 damage dealt, then he has to make a DC 114 Fort save or die.

Or, possibly, you could just have the scythe be vorpal.

 

[King-Panda]

The boots in question aren't those ones irdeggman: they aren't the ones with 5 charges that allow you to move 20, 40, or 60 feet (these are a standard action to activate). They are the ones that allow you to teleport 20 ft. 5/day (as a move action).

Regarding the pit trap, you get a reflex save to avoid falling into a pit trap. You don't automatically fall into one every time you step onto one. I can see what you are saying, and I like the idea of how you run time in combat, but it doesn't really make any sense to me.

I understand everyone goes in the same 6 seconds, But it's not really how combat in D&D works out. You'd really have to make everyone take their turns at the same time for it to work out that way. Everyone would have to move their minis (including all the monsters and NPCs) at the exact same time, probably stopping every 5 feet to adjust their angle, which would horribly slow down gameplay. I don't even wanna think about standard actions at the same time.

Let's say, outside of combat, a character in the front of marching order randomly takes off ahead of his group, using a move action to move 20 feet down a hallway, and 10 feet around a corner, activating a pit trap. From how I understand what you said, by your rules everyone would get a chance to run up to him and try and catch him before he falls, or if not, he would still get a chance next round (?) to cast feather fall? But if he ran around the same corner, and nothing happened, no one would care as much, and probably wouldn't race ahead with him, therefore changing their actions. You would have to keep the knowledge of what happened to the character around the corner secret from the rest of the group for them to not meta game.

Now, lets say the first person in marching order doesn't take off, and is 5 feet away from the person behind him in line. They are marching along, and he steps on a pit trap. I'd give him a reflex save, and the person behind him a dexterity check to try and catch him.

About saying my player can't "move" because he weighs too much doesn't apply to this situation; he is falling, not moving under his own ability.

Anyways, I feel bad about arguing with you; your way probably makes more sense than normal, and I'm just not seeing it. Thanks for all the help you've given though, I appreciate it.


Elethiomel: I didn't really know which way to go, because Enlarge Person states "All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell". I think I will just double it like you say, but it doesn't really make much sense. Oh well.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

He also says he wouldn't take the 20d6 damage, or at least not all of it, because most of the weight is from his shield, his weapon, and his armor (of which only half or so is landing on him if he lands horizontally). He says he would only take the 1d6 from falling 10 ft., or maybe a few extra d6's if you count the weight on his back). He has well over 100 HP, so even taking 10d6 wouldn't be bad if it deals twice that to the enemy.

Bulldroppings. He definetely takes the 20D6 damage, always.

Also, two other words; MASSIVE DAMAGE!

 

[King-Panda]

Wow, I didn't even see there was a second page of posts. Anyways, Even though the spell states it multiplies the weight by 8 (for doubling in size in 3 dimensions, 2x2x2), I think I am just going to double the weight of the gear for gameplay and simplicity.

Aleolus: I have no idea what you are talking about.