D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

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Do you know what all three of them say? In the very first response in the forum and the reddit.

"Slings are highly skill intensive, more so than bows or crossbows."
Yes, I know. But halflings have over multiple editions have a noted affinity with the sling
OH! and look at this. What serendipity, from the same research paper

"Strabo, a Roman historian born in 64 B.C. commented on the famed Balearic slingers:
...their training in the use of slings used to be such, from childhood up, that [parents] would not so much as give bread to their children unless they first hit it with the sling.
You are aware I literally mentioned the Balearic slingers in the post you quoted and how they differed from halflings? The part of my post you quoted literally says:
The Ballearic Slingers that the Roman army used as auxillia might have done this - but only at the point that the Romans were using them as mercenaries so everyone learned it because it was the best way of making money (which is far from the reason halflings do).

And the Balearic slingers were famed mercenaries. Which means that all you have proven is
1: A culture where everyone is a slinger is possible
2: The main known human culture where this was was done was done for very different reasons (making money) from the way halflings do (defence). Not enough has been displayed about the Benjamites

If motivations differ it's a demonstration that halflings aren't humans.
Vegetius, Florus, and other classical writers confirm this Balearic tradition and their remarkable proficiency. The Bible also mentions another legendary group, the Benjamites, noting, “every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.” (Judges 20.16)"
Now tell me why
So, guess that according to our best sources, we have two human societies where are large number of people used slings. The Balearics and the Benjamites. So, historical research proving you wrong. That was a fun bit of learning.
The only thing you proved in your research was that you didn't even read the section of my post you quoted where I literally mentioned the Balearic slingers.
The people in the homes being broken into. Guess that community spirit doesn't apply to saving your neighbors.#
You mean the people who are safe as houses (literally) from the gnoll inability to squeeze through tiny spaces? And who wouldn't want people to put themselves at far more risk than they themselves are at. The gnolls, if there are chokes that make halflings squeeze, can only get at possessions. And wealth isn't worth risking lives over.

It doesn't matter whether gnolls theoretically could breach fortified positions. That's not their thing.
Lore that was written out of the game. And I guess you've abandoned you "give all halflings sharpshooter with the sling" position, unless you think that isn't changing game rules.
That was @Gammadoodler as far as I recall; it certainly wasn't me.
 

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Now a local patrol and militia are mercenaries hired for the job. Dang, I wonder how that changed all of a sudden.
... Here's another place you are twisting things.

Militia protect against bandits and the like. They are very seldom mercenaries. Mercenaries are instead professional soldiers, mostly veterans, and used for fighting wars. I mentioned earlier that there were tiers for this sort of thing.

Anyway I'm getting fed up of this. Goodbye
 

Is 5e the only edition where the PC races don't get a monster manual write up? Even Mordenkainen's tome doesn't give what a typical encounter would be. It does say they can fend off things... even if the description of how they do so seems more than a bit lacking in some important details for running it using the game rules...

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Not sure what any of this has to do with dogs. But, I will note that neither dogs nor slings are in any of that text you quoted.

But, you are right, this information on what what halflings do to defend their homes is very lacking.

As for dogs still, I'm guessing it's not the Dwarves riding the Mastiff's in 5e?

No one needs to be riding it for it to have a carrying capacity. If someone is riding it could be halflings, could be gnomes, could be goblins, could be kobolds.

Just because halflings are one option doesn't mean they have any special relationship with dogs, as noted by... not a single mention of dogs in the 5e lore.

So, if the argument is that all Halflings are 4 hp commoners with slings... well, then, yes, it seems like a poor survival strategy and a bizarre thing to posit. If the argument is that most of them are, that feels like a different thing. Presumably a few guards would fit with past precedent and making something believable without disrupting the idea that as a whole they were bucolic commoners. Among the NPCs in the MM, it looks like the picture for the druid might be a Halfling. And the titles of the old tradition (Cook's X) imply what a higher level retired adventurer who returned home might do...

You would think. And yet they have dug in their heels. Halfling commoners with slings, and nothing else, and I shouldn't even try and argue that that is insufficient. I mean, what about the humans?
 

Not sure what any of this has to do with dogs. But, I will note that neither dogs nor slings are in any of that text you quoted.

It seemed to offer a segue into the other points :-)

No one needs to be riding it for it to have a carrying capacity. If someone is riding it could be halflings, could be gnomes, could be goblins, could be kobolds.
I was wondering that too (if it was just as a possible pack animal or whatnot), but then saw it was in the find steed spell.

Just because halflings are one option doesn't mean they have any special relationship with dogs, as noted by... not a single mention of dogs in the 5e lore.

I'm tempted to go back to see what was in the MM entries for 1, 2, 3.5, and 4 for the other PC races that isn't around anymore either because the PC races don't get entries. In all four of them, anyway, they had some animal that seemed to be suitable to help guarding. I kind of wonder if it was originally a counterpoint to goblins and worgs.

You would think. And yet they have dug in their heels. Halfling commoners with slings, and nothing else, and I shouldn't even try and argue that that is insufficient. I mean, what about the humans?

What about which with the humans? (As allies or as threats or both, or what do the humans defend with since they don't have a big write up either?).
 

Funny how different people living in different areas have different approaches.

Halflings who live in areas where raids are common take more precautions than ones who do not expect to be raided. How is this remotely complex for you to understand? Why are you arguing that halflings should all be clones and should take exactly the same precautions in risky and non-risky regions.

Halflings in regions where raids are a reasonable possibility deliberately build their homes small and sturdy. Halflings in peaceful regions where there is not much risk build much more airy homes in part because they know they are safe.

Now. Are we talking a halfling settlement where a gnoll attack is a reasonable possibility? Or are we talking a halfling settlement where there hasn't been a gnoll attack in the last century and where equivalent human settlements wouldn't bother with anything like walls or militia?

I don't know. You were the one who started with "halfling village" and you are the one who suddenly shifted from them fighting in the streets from behind cover to being in their fortified homes behind reinforced doors.

If you wanted to start from the premise of "a fortified halfling village well used to gnoll raids with a hardened population" then you should have started from that point instead of "halfling village full of normal halfling commoners". It isn't my fault or responsibility to adjust to your shifting argument,

The prone rules say "crawl", not "belly crawl" - and they only halve your speed. I bet you can't belly crawl at a mere half speed. If they are crawling they are prone.

And you are the only one saying that they are "crawling". They are stooped, but not neccesarily crawling. And, squeezing rules give advantage to attack them at any range, and disadvantage on attacks they make, along with half speed. The exact same as prone, except for prone giving advantage to melee and disadvantage to ranged. So... whether they are "crawling" or "squeezing" the results are the exact same. And those penalties are not enough to shift the fight in the halflings favor.

Or just that they don't leave the flammable stuff in line of sight of the windows.

Like a table or wooden floor? Yeah, I know it is hard to catch a wooden floor on fire, but you said "catch the earth on fire" making it seem like there was nothing but dirt visible.

You mean they might make sure that everyone learned to wield a weapon as a child and knew the environment and where to retreat to? They don't have a formal militia - just the training for everyone to be able to fight.

Huh, that sounds really militant. Weren't you, Oofta, Faolyn, Bedir Than, ect ect entirely against making halflings a militant race?

Yet now, it is convenient for you to claim that they are taught to wield a complicated and highly skilled weapon as children, and taught how to fight and retreat in case of an emergency?

Kind of odd. How they went from "don't make our peaceful halfings into warriors" to "halflings have always had a long tradition of weapon use and training for battle"

Yes, that's a halfling home in a region where attack isn't likely to happen. You can't think of a single way that that entrance could be better concealed? I mean you wouldn't expand the turf to cover those bright yellow walls and make sure that that door was itself camouflaged. And that there was no path leading up to the steps, marked by stones.

That is a halfling home in a peaceful environment and you still can't see it from most sides.

This is a halfling house in a peaceful environment. It's also the tallest room in the house because it's the entranceway and meant to be welcoming.

Halflings like tall entranceways. They're comfortable, can welcome other races, and they show that there's no need to build small because of raiders. But in regions where they are expecting gnoll or even human raiders it's a luxury they don't actually need.

With a better finish, yes. And probably a couple of sections that the halflings have to squeeze through and gnolls can't get through at all RAW.

Which was not the original scenario, was it? You just shifted the scenario further and further from your original point. So, while I was talking about a normal halfling village, you decided that you were going to discuss a halfling war-zone village.

Oh wait. That just about ends the gnoll threat inside the halfling homes entirely, doesn't it? A section where halflings have to squeeze to get through.

Sure, that could be a useful place to retreat to. Not a room used often, since halflings like comfort, and having to squeeze through every room in your house is decidely uncomfortable.

Of course, that still won't necessarily protect you from a determined gnoll.

Or are you really telling me that your halflings are all clones that get their furniture from Halfling Ikea and have building layouts that do not reflect any threats in the environment?

You never assumed this until it was convenient for you to do so. I can't be responsible for you shifting gears.

I'm making the assumption that this is somewhere where gnolls attacking is a reasonably forseeable threat, yes. Not monthly - but multiple in living memory. Every few years or so.

If gnoll attacks and attacks from other threats are rare enough that humans wouldn't have plans in place to handle them or a functional militia then yes halflings would be in trouble as well.

AND HE GETS IT!

It took us a long time to get there people, but we finally got there. Halflings would be in trouble with an attack that is also a threat to humans. Which a gnoll raid is. No special pleading that halflings are somehow ultra-prepared warriors ready to repel the attack. Just the acknowledgement that a dangerous raid is a dangerous raid, and that halflings and humans would both have to take precautions to defend themselves.

Was this really such a difficult thing to admit?

No it wasn't. It was a halfling community somewhere gnoll attacks were a predictable problem. And somewhere where it wasn't impossible to have a human village in that area.

No, we never stated "where gnoll attacks were a predictable problem" we started with a normal community attacked by gnolls.
 

Huh. Guess I can no longer respond to Neonchameleon's responses to me

Edit: I do hate responding to people whose posts I can't see any more, but this is an example of the kind of BS we are dealing with here

Oofta stated "Nor have they ever stated that all humans are subject to conscription. Almost as if throughout history many countries primarily used mercenaries to fight their wars. Wonder where they got the money."

Changing the militia to mercenaries. I called him out on that, and the response I got from Neonchamelon right before they blocked me?

"Here's another place you are twisting things.

Militia protect against bandits and the like. They are very seldom mercenaries. Mercenaries are instead professional soldiers, mostly veterans, and used for fighting wars. I mentioned earlier that there were tiers for this sort of thing."


So, Oofta changes militia to mercenary. I respond and say that isn't what we are talking about, then the next person swoops in and says I'm twisting the argument by saying that militia's are mercenaries, which they aren't. Like I said.


Remember when Hussar was saying "Pick a Lane". This is what he is talking about. One person changes the argument, then when I point that out, I'm accused of twisting the argument by another poster.

Just like I was accused of making all elves super magical, a position I argued against, that a different poster held. But that was totally me right?
 
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Yet now, it is convenient for you to claim that they are taught to wield a complicated and highly skilled weapon as children, and taught how to fight and retreat in case of an emergency?

It feels like the arguments in the thread have kind of willy-nilly mixed what's in the rules and what's simulationist/historical. If the argument is based on 5e, then the sling is a "Simple Ranged Weapon". If we're going simulationist/historical then it's whatever the historians say. In spite of the quotes provided previously, it feels like there would have been a lot of starving children on the Balearic Islands if it required lots of professional training (maybe the professionals get more than 1d4 damage out of it and the range).
 

It seemed to offer a segue into the other points :)

Nope, I was just answering the question about halflings having a strong connection to dogs in 5e.

I was wondering that too (if it was just as a possible pack animal or whatnot), but then saw it was in the find steed spell.

Yes, it is in the spell, likely to allow halflings and other small races to use them as a mount. But that consideration does not extend to haflings having any special connection to dogs.

I'm tempted to go back to see what was in the MM entries for 1, 2, 3.5, and 4 for the other PC races that isn't around anymore either because the PC races don't get entries. In all four of them, anyway, they had some animal that seemed to be suitable to help guarding. I kind of wonder if it was originally a counterpoint to goblins and worgs.

It likely was. Goblins have a long tradition as beast masters, and I could see earlier designers trying to parallel Halflings and Goblins in this manner.

I think making them have a stronger connection to animals would be an interesting thing to add to them, I mean, we have Orcs riding giant bats in Volo's. But it just isn't something currently in the Canon, it would have to be a change made to their lore.

Which people are against me doing or suggesting, because I "just don't understand" halflings.

What about which with the humans? (As allies or as threats or both, or what do the humans defend with since they don't have a big write up either?).

I can imagine humans do a lot of things. All of this could be countered obviously, but some basics

Local militias riding patrols would be a massive help, with bows or crossbows they'd have a ranged option while using horses to gallop away.

Having a pallisade or wall to defend towns and villages, much harder to get into a village with those sorts of defense.

Using the crossbows like I suggested for halflings, for the same reasons.

Animals like dogs would make for good early warning systems. Maybe even combatants, this is an era when animals were seen as tools, not pets, so I could see that.

And retired adventures, just like halflings keep getting suggested.


The only thing is, I am making sure I apply the same standards to both, and as was the point in a post by Permeton, the game imagines that these sort of threats are serious enough that a village would call for help, from adventurers, whether they were halfling or human. They aren't perfectly safe

I think everyone would agree dwarves and elves need something far more threatening than a gnoll raid to start asking for help.
 

It feels like the arguments in the thread have kind of willy-nilly mixed what's in the rules and what's simulationist/historical. If the argument is based on 5e, then the sling is a "Simple Ranged Weapon". If we're going simulationist/historical then it's whatever the historians say. In spite of the quotes provided previously, it feels like there would have been a lot of starving children on the Balearic Islands if it required lots of professional training (maybe the professionals get more than 1d4 damage out of it and the range).

Agreed, but I was demanded to provide historical data of humans using slings and why real world humans didn't have a society of sling-users.

So, I had to provide the real world answer to that question, which is that slings are difficult to use compared to a bow and insanely difficult to use compared to a crossbow. People could master them, but they took a lot of time and training. Which is why societies of sling users stopped really being a thing when easier weapons started existing and social dynamics changed.

Does this apply to DnD? Not really, but that wasn't what was being demanded of me
 

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