My rant on Energy Substitution.

[Psion]

Microwaves are also high frequency sound waves, just way outside of anythings hearing range (other than a microwave receiver).

NO, they most explicitly are NOT.

Microwaves are electromagnetic energy... propagating electric and magnetic fields. In the electromagenetic spectrum, they have a frequency ABOVE radio waves but BELOW visible light.

Sound is totally different. Sound is waves in a medium of air or other physical substance, NOT in a magnetic field.

They are both waves, other than that, they are totally and completely different. I have a masters in electrical engineering (specializing in signals), you should trust me on this (though anyone who passed high school physics should know this.)

If you don't trust me, see these dictionary.com definitions:

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=microwave

n.b., are electromagnetic waves

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=sound

n.b., are waves in an elastic solid, liquid, or gas. NOT electromagnetic waves.

 

[Enkhidu]

smetzger,

I have to agree with Psion with this one - he's spot on about the classical definition of microwaves.

But it occurs to me that you may actually be searching for the term ultrasonic, which is a fitting term for sound waves above the human hearing range.

Of course, I may be wrong in that, and you may be using the term "microwave" in a way that is industry specific to the making of speakers, or something similar...

 

[Henry]

But in general I agree with the rant. I don't know what it is about Energy Subsitution. But I don't so much mind when it relates to fire, cold, or lightning. But when people start talking about acid or sonic it bugs me for some reason.

Which is funny, because "cold" isn't an energy - it's the LACK thereof. If anything should be bothering people, it's having a COLD spell.

I haven't had a problem yet with sonic substitutions, because sonic attacks can be neutralized with the right counters. (Bard, as someone mentioned, as well as the simple silence spell - read the PHB.) In my opinion, why unnecessarily complicate things by introducing reduced damage, special affects, etc.?

When a sonic fireball goes off, I imagine a deep bass thrumming wave, that just shimmers through your skin and just forces the skin off your flesh - a great, tearing thrumming sensation. Get too close to a really powerful, badly-serviced jet turbine engine and you'll understand.

 

[wolff96]

Which is funny, because "cold" isn't an energy - it's the LACK thereof. If anything should be bothering people, it's having a COLD spell.

Actually, I've always just viewed that as a massively endothermic chemical reaction.

There are ways to generate blasts of cold -- you're extremely rapidly draining the kinetic energy out of the air.

One of my favorite experiments in Chemistry (a class I generally hated) was one in which a chemical had a matched dropped into it. The chemical (with a blue flame, actually) combined explosively with the air. The container it had been contained in was covered in nearly a quarter inch of frost, though, and you could feel the cold in the air from several inches away.

Someone else, that actually KNOWS some chemistry, might be able to give a more thorough explanation.

 

[Bonedagger]

When a sonic fireball goes off, I imagine a deep bass thrumming wave, that just shimmers through your skin and just forces the skin off your flesh - a great, tearing thrumming sensation. Get too close to a really powerful, badly-serviced jet turbine engine and you'll understand.

I don't have a problem with imagining how it would be.

The problem is just that fire used to have a chance to burn, Sonic could deafen you but did less damage, Acid lasted for a long time, Lightning could melt metal.. much like fire I guess and Cold was nice towards any treasure your target might have.

Now if you change a fire to sonic it doesn't compensate for the two elements being different. Of cause you could add this but as I said in my example above, it is the princip behind it. Sonic should not be just as good as fire. It should be very different.

Edit: If you decide to add a deafening effect to a sonic ball you should, if it had to be fair, also balance it by e.g. making it a higher level.

 

[Lord Ben]

Well, I say it's fine. But just have them encounter far too many things at once when they fire off a spell that creates a huge sonic blast. Monsters come running, thanks for setting off the alarm. There has to be SOME penalty for making lots of noise.

 

[Kugar]

Yes a cold blast is possible, but difficult to manage.
1) Spontaneously generate a super cold gas.
Imagine if you will, a 1000 gallon tank of liquid nitrogen exploding due to pressure. THAT is a cold blast. Magic just makes getting the liquid nitrogen dispersed in the air that mush easier.

2) Run a highly endothermic reaction.
Possible but difficult to manage. Sucking up that much heat usually means that the products are way higher energy than the reactants, so normal thermodynamics says this type of reaction is not favored. There are tons of reactions that follow non-standard kinetics. I'll due some more research.

3) Expansion of a gas.
This is how your air conditioner works. High pressure liquid expands to gasses. If the total energy of the system is to remain constant, since energy cannot be created or destroyed unless you are hurting reality's brain by going REALLY fast, the energy comes from the average kinetic energy of the molecules. This is observed as a drop in temperature.

--
As far as waves:
Microwave = EM radiation like light, only at a different wavelength. It is a phenomena like all EM radiation that has properties of both energy and matter.

Sound = propagation of vibrational wave through a media.

We can cook chicken by shining a really high energy flashlight, but I have never seen an idea for an oven based on shaking the chicken really fast.

--
DnD:
Energy substitution is cool. If your players are metagaming make your feinds sound resistant and vulnerable to small plush toys.
--
As far as waves:
Microwave = EM radiation like light, only at a different wavelength. It is a phenomena like all EM radiation that has properties of both energy and matter.

Sound = propagation of vibrational wave through a media.

We can cook chicken by shining a really high energy flashlight, but I have never seen an idea for an oven based on shaking the chicken really fast.

--
DnD:
Energy substitution is cool. If your players are metagaming make your feinds sound resistant and vulnerable to small plush toys.

 

[Zog]

Possible source of confusion via Microwave...

The microwave oven 'cooks' things because the waves it generates causes the Water molecules to vibrate very quickly. This, in turn, results in heat being generated. So, the microwave energy produces vibrational energy, which in turn, results in hot food.

As for the actual topic of the thread - Energy Substitution is a great feat for Sorcerers. It can help them a lot, but having played one, the delay in getting your spell off really hurts. The feat has more potential for abuse than most core ones - but it is still OK.

Energy admixture, now - that one I will never allow!

 

[Benben]

Huzzah for a good suggestion!

DnD:
Energy substitution is cool. If your players are metagaming make your feinds sound resistant and vulnerable to small plush toys.

If you're players are making nonstandard mages, then it's the DMs duty to make monsters non-standard.

In fact, even with a vanilla party with only the Core books then the DM should still change the monsters the party encounters. Anything else is pure laziness.

 

[Acmite]

Energy substitution is splatbook content and therefore banned from my games.

I do like the sonic spells elsewhere, shatter and shout are good examples, but IMHO the only way to balance that Energy sub feat (sonics... did anyone take something else?) is to rule that silence stops it completely.

Which has been discussed in the rules forum to the death.

It is not a house rule, AFAIK. Silence stops spells with the sonic descriptor.