D&D 5E My thoughts on 5e (mostly martial power source)

[StAlda]

Here is my take on what I'd like to see in 5e. This is mostly from a Martial power source point of view. I think every power source should have its own feel (like how Psionics has a separate feel). Please bear in mind, most examples below are square pegs driven into round holes, it is the concept/spirit I’m trying to convey.

• Basic Attack should scale (I’m not sure of the interval to increase the scale, but I gave it a shot below)
• at-wills, encounters & dailies have unique effects added on the Basic Attack
• use cards to hold power stats, weapon stats, etc. I don't want D&D to become a card game either, I just mean cards to hold all relevant info Including optional data for that sliding scale of how detailed do you want the game, see Attack Bonus/Penalty in sample card below. And, any condition effects (dazed, stunned, etc.) that the power may cause.
• weapons/implements should determine attack attribute (not powers, with exceptions)
• quick cast rituals (similar to the scroll options in the latest dragon mag)
  
• get rid of roles, marking, challenges
• powers should be grouped by power source (not classes)
• Classes have access to power sources (Fighter: Martial, Ranger: Martial, Primal)
• no generic “always on” attack or damage enhancing feats

Example of weapon card data
---------------------------------------------
Longsword
Martial
Type: Melee (other types: Thrown, Projectile, Shield)
Attribute: Strength
Attack: Strength vs. AC (a Mace could be Strength vs. Reflex due to its impact nature)
Die: d8
Size: Medium
Prof: +2
Min Attribute: 8

Optional
Attack Bonus/Penalty
Chainmail: -4 dam
---------------------------------------------

Basic Melee Attack
Fighter Attack 1
At-Will ? Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Hit:
Level 1: 1[W] + weapon Attribute modifier damage
Level 5: 2[W] + weapon Attribute modifier damage
Level 10: 3[W] + weapon Attribute modifier damage
Level 15: 4[W] + weapon Attribute modifier damage
Level 20: 5[W] + weapon Attribute modifier damage
Level 25: 6[W] + weapon Attribute modifier damage
Level 30: 7[W] + weapon Attribute modifier damage


Reaping Strike
Fighter Attack 1
At-Will ? Martial
Requirement: Melee Weapon
Miss: Half weapon attribute modifier damage. If you’re wielding...

Steel Serpent Strike
Fighter Attack 1
Encounter ? Martial
Requirement: Melee Weapon
Hit: +1[W] and target is slowed...

Brute Strike
Fighter Attack 1
Daily ? Martial
Requirement: Melee Weapon
Hit: +2[W]
(the beauty of this is that at 17th level this power is still relevant, giving you a 6[W] strike instead of 4)

Crack the Shell
Fighter Attack 5
Daily ? Martial
Requirement: Melee Weapon
Hit: the target takes ongoing 5 damage and a –2 penalty to AC (save ends both).

Vorpal Tornado
Fighter Attack 17
Encounter ? Martial
Requirement: Melee Weapon
Close burst 1
Target: Each enemy in burst you can see
Hit: -2[W] You push the target 1 square, and it is knocked prone.

Exacting Strike
Fighter Attack 17
Encounter ? Martial
Requirement: Melee Weapon
Attack: +6

Cruel Reaper
Fighter Attack 27
Encounter ? Martial
Requirement: Melee Weapon
Close burst 1
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst you can see
Hit: -3[W]
Effect: You can shift 2 squares, and then make a secondary attack.
Secondary Target: Each enemy in close burst 1
Hit: -3[W] + Strength modifier damage.

Powers like Reaving Strike, Anvil of Doom, Talon of the Roc would be obsolete (the only thing they have over a 1st level power is the damage)

Cage of Chains and Chains of Sorrow would be Flail weapon powers accessible when you have proficiency. So it no longer needs to be 23rd level, a 1st level can use it with 1st level damage.

And I just reached my typing limit.....be kind.

 

[Mark CMG]

While I appreciate the work and effort you put into this, I'm not a fan of the whole "power source" or even "powers" concept for a fighter/martial character.

 

[trancejeremy]

Yeah, I'm afraid power sources is going to be one big stumbling block. How to cater to people who like them vs those that don't?

Beyond that, if it's too much to type, it's too much to play easily.

With that said, both sides need to compromise I imagine we will see more than just the basic attack - roll d20 to hit then roll damage.

 

[HeinorNY]

While I appreciate the work and effort you put into this, I'm not a fan of the whole "power source" or even "powers" concept for a fighter/martial character.

Me neither.
What about you can do whatever you want as a fighter?
Player describes it to DM, DM assigns a penalty/drawback and define the effect if player succeeds, player rolls.

 

[TwinBahamut]

While I appreciate the work and effort you put into this, I'm not a fan of the whole "power source" or even "powers" concept for a fighter/martial character.

I'm not really a fan of the idea of Fighter powers, since that term implies a unity of mechanics across the game like in 4E, but Fighters absolutely need to have some equivalent (maneuvers, I suppose). Returning to a situation where Fighters can only make basic attacks would be unacceptable.

Power sources are also fine, since that's really a thing that has always been in the game. Characters have always been martial, arcane, divine, psionic, or whatever. 4E's main problem was that it forced a class to be just one of those. I'll agree with the topic starter that modifying the power source system so that a class can use multiple power sources would be a big improvement.

Also, as I mentioned in other threads, I rather like the idea of "power lists" that are shared at least a bit by different classes of the same power source. This is particularly true for martial characters. I don't want 4E's unified power system, but power source-specific mechanics and/or mechanical elements are a tradition for the game. It would be nice to see that extend to martial combat just as much as it was true for Arcane spell lists or Psionic power lists.

I'll disagree with a lot of the other particulars mentioned in the first post, though. If nothing else, I like roles (just not 4E's roles).

 

[kinem]

First of all, there should be no martial daily powers, and no "encounter" powers period (whether martial, magical, or whatever). If you want an ability to refresh, make it based on time (such as rest 5 min to regain it, or the like), not on so-called "encounters". Yes, I'm not a 4E fan

What I'd like to see for martial characters is more like Pathfinder's Dirty Trick options, but altered to not suck. (Effects that last only one round, automatically do suck. Blindness? Could be permanent, under the right circumstances. Who said that save or lose abilities must only be magical?)

 

[StAlda]

While I appreciate the work and effort you put into this, I'm not a fan of the whole "power source" or even "powers" concept for a fighter/martial character.

Then don't play martial powers, just have Basic Attacks since they themselves scale. Treating each weapon as unique would also allow us to harken back to the 1e weapon vs. armor table (without having to look up the table every combat) the adjustments would be with the weapon data/card.

I know some things I wanted to convey were lost in the brain dump, but that was one of them.

 

[Mark CMG]

Then don't play martial powers, just have Basic Attacks since they themselves scale. Treating each weapon as unique would also allow us to harken back to the 1e weapon vs. armor table (without having to look up the table every combat) the adjustments would be with the weapon data/card.

I know some things I wanted to convey were lost in the brain dump, but that was one of them.

I'd rather they not be built into the core of 5E rather than have to either extract them and/or find some alternate that manages to offset their removal.

 

[StAlda]

First of all, there should be no martial daily powers, and no "encounter" powers period (whether martial, magical, or whatever). If you want an ability to refresh, make it based on time (such as rest 5 min to regain it, or the like), not on so-called "encounters". Yes, I'm not a 4E fan

I see encounter and daily powers as "you generally only get that kind of opening once an encounter or once a day". As you get higher level you can find more opportunities (more Dailies/Encounters) to perform unique attacks/manuevers. As I stated above the encounters and dailies are add ons to the basic attack, in 4e terms they would all be considered "Reliable".

There are many things about 4e to not be a fan of....

 

[Ahnehnois]

I see encounter and daily powers as "you generally only get that kind of opening once an encounter or once a day".

You get that one opening regardless of how many battles you fight, how you fight them, or who you're fighting against? Yikes. Probably better to just leave off that explanation.

There many things about 4e to not be a fan of....

***
I think the fighter is better served by combat maneuver rules that work, and some kind of combat reaction/block/parry system, as well as a more lethal hp system.