Native English Speakers!I need your help!(once again....)

[Egres]

Hi!

I need your help regarding a stupid(IMHO) issue about the term "wield".

A poster in this thread on the WotC boards states that:

Also by the RAW, a character with IUS or monks using the unarmed strike class feature counts as being armed. They are wielding a weapon.

This is, IMHO, a clear example of weirdness.

I mean, how do you "wield" your fists?

Heck, an Unarmed Strike could even be a Headbutt.....could we "wield" our head with our neck?!?

My English-Italian dictionary (one of the best you could buy), translates "wield" as "to brandish, to wave".

The only other meaning of the term is referred to uses like "to wield influence, power", that has nothing to do with our issue.

Nevertheless he and another poster are insisting that you can use the term "wield" as "use actively".

Is this true?

Can we really "wield" our heads?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Terath Ninir]

I think that by the D&D 3e rules -- and ONLY by those rules -- you are technically "wielding" a weapon whenever you use a natural attack. It is bad, confusing terminology, violating both the rules of English and of common sense, but I believe that is the case. Someone using a natural attack is considered armed, which is another case of bad terminology.

 

[TheEvil]

All it really means in this case is that monks are considered armed for the purposes of provoking and taking Attacks of Opportunity

 

[Egres]

All it really means in this case is that monks are considered armed for the purposes of provoking and taking Attacks of Opportunity

Right, I know that.

My only problem is that I can't understand how can you use the term "wield" for your fists or your head.

IMHO that poster is only trying to support is view with a silly argument.

 

[nyrfherdr]

You can certainly 'brandish' your fists and be considered to wield a weapon.
Your are effectively threatening attack because you have balled up your hands into weapons (i.e. fists)
If you look at any combatant, whether a boxer, alley fighter, or martial artist. Their posture and pose changes when they are prepared to defend themselves or attack another.
While it is cumbersome to say they are wielding their body, they are, in effect, doing that.

On the topic of headbutt, that is almost a bluff/feint attack anyway, since you are trying to catch your opponent off guard. It would rarely be a primary attack even for a martial artist.

In a comical way I could picture someone with hands tied behind their back, nodding their head up and down and side to side 'brandishing' their head to attack their captor.

Anyway. While the use of the word is, perhaps, a little clumsy it is not incorrect in any way.

I hope that helps.
Game ON!
Nyrf

 

[Greatwyrm]

He really could have cut the second sentence out all together and made a correct argument, without the "wield"ing confusion. But, hey, we all play a little fast and loose with grammar from time to time.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

The "weapon" SALDAR is referring to is the PC's body. Not his head or his fists. His body is considered a weapon, and always considered "wielded" as opposed to "sheathed."

SALDAR's statement seems perfectly accurate and perfectly sensible.

It's true that in a standard english sense, you wouldn't claim to be "wielding" your body. But we're talking game-terms here. There are certain things that aren't manufactured weapons, but are nevertheless considered "weapons" in game-terms: Natural Weapons, a monk's body, the body of a PC having taken Improved Unarmed Strike.

Once something has been defined as a "weapon", there needs to be a distinction made between whether the weapon is being actively used ("wielded") and thus does not provoke AoOs, can make AoOs, etc. Or whether that weapon is sheathed and therefore unavailable for attacks/AoOs. The "weapons"--IUS, natural weapons, and monks' bodies--are considered always "wielded" for this purpose.

So I guess the bottom line is, game-terms /= standard english.

 

[Egres]

The "weapon" SALDAR is referring to is the PC's body. Not his head or his fists. His body is considered a weapon, and always considered "wielded" as opposed to "sheathed."

SALDAR's statement seems perfectly accurate and perfectly sensible.

It's true that in a standard english sense, you wouldn't claim to be "wielding" your body. But we're talking game-terms here. There are certain things that aren't manufactured weapons, but are nevertheless considered "weapons" in game-terms: Natural Weapons, a monk's body, the body of a PC having taken Improved Unarmed Strike.

Once something has been defined as a "weapon", there needs to be a distinction made between whether the weapon is being actively used ("wielded") and thus does not provoke AoOs, can make AoOs, etc. Or whether that weapon is sheathed and therefore unavailable for attacks/AoOs. The "weapons"--IUS, natural weapons, and monks' bodies--are considered always "wielded" for this purpose.

So I guess the bottom line is, game-terms /= standard english.

I see.

However, his point of view is just silly.

He's trying to argue that you aren't Unarmed when you attack with your fists if you have the IUS feat.

He just can't see the difference between attacking with a manufactured weapon and attacking with Unarmed "Armed "attacks.

But this is another story.

 

[The Spectrum Rider]

Try this:

You aren't armed. You aren't wielding a weapon.

However, for the purposes of all game rules, you are *treated* as though you were armed and wielding a weapon.

Does that help at all? Because personally I can't see what the problem is.

The Spectrum Rider

 

[Khaalis]

However, his point of view is just silly. He's trying to argue that you aren't Unarmed when you attack with your fists if you have the IUS feat.

He just can't see the difference between attacking with a manufactured weapon and attacking with Unarmed "Armed "attacks.

Actually, a martial artist is "armed" just as much with IUS as if he were carrying a 'manufactured weapon'. A martial artist's body IS their weapon. It is just as capable as slaying a creature or sundering objects as a manufactured weapon is, more so in some cases. Ever try hacking through a block of wood (or even worse... a brick) with a long sword? It doesn't work very well and more often than not just ruins your blade. However, a Karate expert can shatter brick with their hands. So which is more of a weapon?

IUS makes your body a weapon, thus you are always armed as long as you are not immobilized.