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D&D 5E Natural Armor

Connorsrpg

Adventurer
Has there been any official word on this yet? I have constantly gone back and forth on this, but given a flat AC is going to be of NO help to any class that wears armor, then I am inclined to go with a bonus.

Re warforged - at this stage we have gone with choosing a type of armor that is 'molded' or just representative of your build/make up.
 

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Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
What do you think needs an official word? I don't think there is any genuine confusion.

Warforged get an AC bonus, and this adds to any armour they are wearing.
 

Horwath

Legend
Natural armor does not stack with mundane armor per rules.

What would be logical is adding monks wis bonus to AC to stack with natural armor. Monks just dodge faster because of trained intuition, lets call it. So monks wis bonus is just another source of dex bonus to AC. So it should stack fully.

As for manufactured armor there is some overlap with protection areas. what is protected by natural armor is already protected by mundane one.

But, maybe natural armor could be usefull with some diminishing returns;

1st calculate natural armor bonus. It's easy natural AC of 10 is +0, 11 is +1, 12 is +2...etc.

if you wear no armor, natural armor bonus stays the same, but limited to +4 for barbarian/monk AC

If you wear light armor reduce natural armor bonus by 2. maximum natural bonus to AC +3. after reductions.

If you wear medium armor reduce natural armor bonus by 4. maximum natural bonus to AC +2. after reductions.

If you wear heavy armor reduce natural armor bonus by 6. maximum natural bonus to AC +1. after reductions.
 
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pming

Legend
Hiya!

So, basically, it sounds like 'you' (generic you) want Fighters with heavy armor to be laughing stocks once the mid levels are reached, correct? Because, really, "I'm wearing plate mail! I'm AC 18!" (says the fighter), and "HAHAH! I'm a Shadow-Steeped Dragonborn Ironskin-Warrior-Monk with the Extra Natural Armor Feat and Enhanced Unarmored Defence ability...I'm buck nakid' and my AC is 26! Suck it!".

Yup. Great move. Sounds awesome...

(in case you missed it, that last part was sarcasm)

Bottom Line: No. Don't go there. Just...don't. The AC in 5e is very much a "you have two/three/x options on how to calculate your AC; pick one". As I find my self repeating time and time again... for the love of the Gods, STOP thinking in 3.x/PF/4e terms! 5e is *not* the same beast! It has a COMPLETELY different baseline and curve for how the rules are set up to interact with one another.

Or...ignore me. Use cumulative AC effects and see where it gets you and your game. Come back and tell us how well it turned out in 6 months. ;)

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

Ilbranteloth

Explorer
It's been covered:

Jeremy Crawford [MENTION=4036]Jeremy[/MENTION]ECrawford (September 11)
In an AC calculation, natural armor takes the place of armor, and you can pair a shield with it.

Going back to August 20, 2014 Jeremy says:
Natural armor doesn't limit a creature's Dexterity bonus.

--

There is still some confusion if you want to get picky:
And January 26:
Is Natural Armor, considered 'Unarmored' or 'Light Armor' ?" Neither. Natural armor is its own thing. Jeremy (January 21, 2015).

Jeremy Crawford [MENTION=4036]Jeremy[/MENTION]ECrawford
Does it work with a Barbarian's Unarmored Defense? This is a gray area, for sure. As DM, I err on the side of generosity and would let natural armor work with Unarmored Defense.

Mike contradicts this:
druid multiclass monk, unarmored defense apply to wildshape? ex wolf 13 nat ac +its dex mod and druid wis mod? not in my opinion – natural armor counts as armor. use higher of base 10 + mods or form AC — Mike Mearls (May 25, 2015)

Would the AC bonus from Dragon Sorcerer Draconic Resilience stack with Unarmored Defense from Monk/Barbarian? no – any effect that gives you a new AC formula does not stack. pick which one to use — Mike Mearls (July 27, 2015)

--

I look at these as a great example of the thought that goes into the game, as well as how they view the game to be played. I don't think there's an actual disagreement. Jeremy and Mike respond to tweets on the fly. Mike has a good handle on these specific rule in his exchanges. Jeremy does too, but when asked about Unarmored Defense it seems to me that he's making a quick response rather than looking at the rules.

I do this all the time, and having DM'd games from the original basic set through to the 5th Edition, there's also a fair amount of edition creep when making a quick ruling. Most of mine lean toward AD&D 1st and 2nd editions since that was the biggest chunk of my DMing.

Natural Armor being treated as armor (you can use DEX bonus and shield but not abilities requiring you to be 'unarmored') maintains game balance. Allowing abilities requiring you to be 'unarmored' to supersede the Natural Armor when better allows your training (special abilities) to still have meaning.

I generally agree with Jeremy's statement to err on the side of generosity. In the course of a game, if we couldn't come up with a 'correct' answer quickly I'd allow them to stack in the moment, with the usual caveat that in game rulings for a questionable situation may be different for future sessions once we have a chance to address the question more thoroughly.

When questioning situations like this, the #1 question I ask is what effect does this ruling have for NPCs and monsters? In this case far more monsters will have natural armor than PCs. For example, an ancient gold dragon has an AC of 22. So if you prepare a suit of plate barding for a dragon, would it stack?

There's no right answer to this. Some would point out that it's a way to make a certain monster more dangerous and an interesting battle if they chose to fight it. On the other hand, there's a large list of monsters with Natural Armor that would increase the difficulty across the board if they all started wearing armor.

Ultimately, adjudicating the rule to allow stacking would benefit maybe one (if any) PCs, but a lot of NPCs/Monsters, as a net loss for the PCs. So I'd stick with Natural Armor + Dex + Shield and possible magical bonuses, and go with the highest AC available at the moment between two non-stacking options.

Ilbranteloth
 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
Natural armor does not stack with mundane armor per rules.

What would be logical ...

Can you please point to the specific rule you are reading? That will help move the discussion forward.

[EDIT: As I'm typing [MENTION=6778044]Ilbranteloth[/MENTION] is providing tweets. Thanks! The points you make are helpful. And possibly this is what [MENTION=6801299]Horwath[/MENTION] mentions by "per rules".]

Armour class isn't "logical" -- it is an abstraction, representing a wide variety of factors by a number on a straightforward linear scale. There will, necessarily, be problems. That's to be expected.
 
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dmnqwk

Explorer
Page 276 of the DMG states "A monster that doesn't wear armour might have natural armour, in which case it has an AC equal to 10 +its Dexterity modifier+ its natural armour bonus." This gives us a calculation formula for all Natural Armour users. Anything which grants a bonus to armour class will stack with an AC calculation (provided it meets the criteria, for example the Fighting Style - Defense would only stack if you have armour on, not if you just have Natural Armour or a Sorc's Scales. Warforged Plating from the UA stacks with any calculation).

And as has been said sufficient times when you have multiple armour formulas - pick the highest.
 

hejtmane

Explorer
Multi classing states this PHB 164
UNARMORED DEFENSE
If you already have the Unarmored Defense feature, you
can't gain it again from another class.

In other words Monk, Sorcerer, Barb do not stack

I also forgot to add this is always stated with the natural AC as while under the classes

When you aren't wearing armor
 
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Pauln6

Hero
You could do a compromise. You could allow natural armour to function in a similar way to Dex and cap it as max +1 to the AC granted if wearing medium armour and max +2 if wearing heavy armour.

Hill Giant AC13 (natural armour +4, -1 dex)
Hill Giant In Scale AC14 (Armour -1dex +1 bonus)
Hill Giant in Plate AC20 (Amour +2 bonus)

Or if your natural armour bonus is equal to or greater than half the bonus you get from your worn armour (as a bonus from base 10) then you get an extra +1 to AC, otherwise you get the AC granted by the armour or natural armour alone. So it won't often be worthwhile.

Hill Giant AC13 (natural armour +4, -1 dex)
Hill Giant In Scale AC14 (Armour4/2= 2) -1 dex +1 bonus)
Hill Giant in Plate AC19 (Amour(8/2 = 4) +1 bonus but something with only +3 natural armour would gain no bonus)

Mind you, all giants should probably have +4 natural armour (except stone giants) but it is absent from their stat block if they wear armour.
 

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