Natural attacks and Class attacks confusion

[Cameron]

Don't fall for it Cameron, he's trying to set you up.

He's gonna set me up the bomb, eh?



(no thread is complete without a referrence to that rather sorry bit of infamy...)

 

[Cameron]

Out of curiosity, do you consider them to be natural weapons?

-Hyp.

For a normal guy, maybe. Depends on the length and strength of his nails, I guess.

For a monk, it can be either (this is specifically stated).

 

[Hypersmurf]

For a monk, it can be either (this is specifically stated).

Only for the purpose of effects that improve or enhance [natural/manufactured] weapons. Not for all purposes.

For the non-monk, then, who lacks the monk's Unarmed Strike class feature - can he make multiple attacks with one fist for having a high BAB, or does he follow the rule that you never gain multiple attacks for a high BAB with a natural weapon?

-Hyp.

 

[Cameron]

Only for the purpose of effects that improve or enhance [natural/manufactured] weapons. Not for all purposes.

For the non-monk, then, who lacks the monk's Unarmed Strike class feature - can he make multiple attacks with one fist for having a high BAB, or does he follow the rule that you never gain multiple attacks for a high BAB with a natural weapon?

-Hyp.

Depends on whether he has IUS, doesn't it?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Depends on whether he has IUS, doesn't it?

IUS determines whether he threatens, whether he provokes an AoO, and whether or not he can deal lethal damage. It doesn't alter whether or not he can make iterative attacks with his unarmed strike - if he can with the feat, he can without it, and if he can't without the feat, he can't with the feat.

-Hyp.

 

[glass]

I saw that and I don't agree with it. However, I do view two fists as two different weapons.

Where is fist on the weapons table? I'll save you looking; it isn't there. Unarmed strike, however, is there.

Two fists is no weapons. Unarmed strike is one weapon.


glass.

 

[Cameron]

Where is fist on the weapons table? I'll save you looking; it isn't there. Unarmed strike, however, is there.

Two fists is no weapons. Unarmed strike is one weapon.


glass.

You might want to read under unarmed strike, boyo.

 

[Seeten]

Just to let you know, it is impossible to win vs Hypersmurf. His knowledge of the Raw is unrivaled. I've been here a long time, and seen him wrong once. He admitted it a fair ways in. I was convinced you were wrong, Cameron, in this thread, by 3/4ths of the way thru page 1. The fact that we've arrived at page 4 is testament to your reluctance to lose the argument, but unfortunately, its been lost for a long time.

There is no shame in losing a rules argument to Hypersmurf, rather, it is good. It can allow you to see the rules as they are, and choose to use house rules for the stuff thats inane, or does not make sense. That does not make it any less RAW, though, when Hype tells you "how it is".

 

[Hypersmurf]

You might want to read under unarmed strike, boyo.

I suspect he did... where he discovered that the weapon 'Unarmed Strike' involves the use of punches, kicks, or headbutts.

Which weapon are you using when you punch? Unarmed strike. Which weapon are you using when you kick? Unarmed strike.

-Hyp.

 

[Cameron]

Hmm... There seems to be a post missing. I did reply to Hyp earlier...


Anyways, I am inclined to believe that an unarmed strike might have iterative attacks due to monks having it.




As for Seetan: You are welcomed to your opinion. However, to say that Hyp is the RAW-God and should be worshipped is a bit much imo...