D&D 5E Natural Weapons discrepancies?

[DND_Reborn]

The dire wolf's stat block is perfectly consistent with their natural weapon attack having the finesse property. A rogue who has higher STR than DEX can still choose to use STR for their finesse weapon attacks; and they will, since they're better that way.

As to why wolves' natural weapons have something like the finesse property, who knows? But thinking of it along the lines of what a monk can do makes sense to me: monks are supposed to have a particularly instinctive control over how they attack with their body. Makes perfect sense that a wild animal would be the same way.

No idea about the ghast's bite though. That does seem pretty weird... As it is, I guess they can choose to make a slightly more damaging attack with a slightly lower chance to hit, which I guess if you're facing someone with a low AC and high CON save (or with a low AC and very few HP) might be slightly more effective?

That's a good point about finesse weapons. I guess I am just so used to people to take finesse weapons defaulting to DEX I forget you can of course still use STR.

If you think of (particularly) aggressive monsters (such as wolves and dire wolves) as having "training" in their natural weapons similar to a monk "training" in unarmed strikes, the idea of them being able to use DEX or STR, whichever benefits them most, makes some sense.

 

[Charlaquin]

Are there instances of monsters using two weapon fighting that have multiattack and also separate bonus actions they can use? If not it's equivalent to just saying they have the TWF fighting style, but simpler to manage as a DM than treating one of the attacks as a bonus action.

Fair enough, I suppose. It’s just a bit strange to me that every monster or NPC that uses two weapons would have the equivalent of the two-weapon fighting style. Also, this interpretation does lead to some other issues like monsters with features that use bonus actions (e.g. a goblin’s nimble escape) being able to do that and Multiattack in the same turn. But I fully acknowledge that this is a pet peeve of mine and bothers me disproportionately to any actual effect it might have on the game.

 

[Charlaquin]

Honestly, and I apologize because I know this sounds a bit dismissive of your issue, but this is player confusion, right? Players shouldn't have to worry about any stat block of a monster, or concern themselves about how a monsters attack modifiers are done. That's the realm of the DM.

They should if they’re playing a Druid.



Well, they shouldn’t, Wild Shape should just give the character a unique set of buffs and/or other stat changes a-la the recent UA animal Barbarian. But that ship has sailed, so a Druid’s player does need to be concerned with animal stat blocks.

 

[Charlaquin]

If you think of (particularly) aggressive monsters (such as wolves and dire wolves) as having "training" in their natural weapons similar to a monk "training" in unarmed strikes, the idea of them being able to use DEX or STR, whichever benefits them most, makes some sense.

I think @Bacon Bits has it right: It’s not so much that certain animals’ natural attacks have finesse and other animals’ natural attacks don’t, it’s that every animal’s primary natural attack has finesse, and some animals’ secondary natural attacks don’t. Humanoids seem to be an exception, which makes sense enough, given that humanoids are capable of using weapons that aren’t natural and other animals are not. If you want to frame it diegetically, lacking finesse on their unarmed strikes is an evolutionary shortcoming of humanoids, which their evolutionary advantage of tool use compensates for.

 

[Seramus]

I think @Bacon Bits has it right: It’s not so much that certain animals’ natural attacks have finesse and other animals’ natural attacks don’t, it’s that every animal’s primary natural attack has finesse, and some animals’ secondary natural attacks don’t.

This. Almost every primary natural attack in the Monster Manual is treated as having Finesse. Unarmed Strikes is the outlier and should probably be Finesse (even without Monk levels).

 

[Charlaquin]

This. Almost every primary natural attack in the Monster Manual is treated as having Finesse. Unarmed Strikes is the outlier and should probably be Finesse (even without Monk levels).

An argument can be made that Unarmed Strikes are not primary natural attacks for humanoids, with the exception of those with martial arts training.

 

[Weiley31]

The way I saw/thought it was I that whichever stat is the creature's dominant stat for their attacks, is usually whichever stat is high.

Monster whose casting stat/spells relies on CHA? Their CHA stat will be high. Monster going to hit ya like a Mac truck? STR will usually be higher. As mentioned before, small wolves are quicker, hence the DEX, while aorruscular Dire Wolf is STR.

Just really depends on the creature and it's archetype.

 

[Esker]

Looking at the beasts in the MM that have DEX higher than STR (which are the only cases where it's possible to distinguish whether their natural weapons are treated as having something equivalent to the finesse property), it seems to me that most., maybe all, of the DEX-based natural weapon attacks do piercing damage; in other words, their natural weapons are like built-in daggers or shortswords. The handful that do slashing or bludgeoning (things like the giant owl or giant crab) seem to have to-hit and damage bonuses that are based on STR, even though the creature has higher DEX. Spiders seem to be a bit all over the place: all have higher DEX than STR, most have a bite attack that does piercing damage, but some of them use STR, others can use DEX.

 

[Seramus]

An argument can be made that Unarmed Strikes are not primary natural attacks for humanoids, with the exception of those with martial arts training.

They could, but that seems to be a state of less fun instead of greater fun. I mean, it's not going to happen anytime soon. But I can think of a few fun builds. Wishes and horses, etc.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

This is pretty much the same as a blah blah blah response so thanks for--well--nothing.

It's the correct answer though.

There is no "rule" about which attribute a monster's attack must use. When the DM creates a monster stat block they choose whichever seems most appropriate. It could be strength or dexterity, or intelligence or wisdom.

It's just like deciding if a creature has acid resistance or poison immunity: the DM decides what best suits the theme or makes for the most interesting fight.