Necromancer Games NOT going with current GSL.

[WhatGravitas]

We are losing access to the products of creative minds ... people with proven track records. So -- if they don't happen to work at WOTC, I won't get to enjoy their work in 4E??!

More importantly: It's not only angering the fans, it's also a very shortsighted strategy. OGL *has* done a lot for D&D, creative minds, like our resident rodent here, came into the public spotlight due to the OGL. Heck, Mearls himself is a child of both, OGL and the Forge.

With this situation, we, the fans, lose now, and in the long run, the entire industry may lose some potentially creative people. Yes, the OGL is still out there, but the recognition potential is wholly different, and... well, you cannot draw in ingenious young people who get into it with 4E.

That makes me sad and to comment on the edition split: Due to this, even Pathfinder, 3.5, whatever else there is D&D-related, will lose something in the long run.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Jasperak]

I think I am going to try and "rerail" this thread.

There is no doubt that WOTC has a superior market position in the RPG market. D&D is the game that started them all and the one most likely to be found in Barnes & Nobles or Borders. But when you get down to it, I think the more important place to find games is in places where people actually will play them, be it the high school lunch rooms, college commons, family room, or at your FLGS. Those people are your sales and marketing force.

Even though 4e has had tremendous sales up to this point, the GSL has harmed the industry. Instead of everyone building off the 4th edition, everyone must either convert to the GSL, stay with the open system or come up with their own proprietary system. If it is true that 4e has split the community, WOTC has totally screwed up IMHO. Before they had most people playing 3.5e, with some people branching out to try other systems. Now it anyone's guess with the numbers, because they shrunk their own market. Instead of all these 3pp under their roof, they are out there working on their own systems.

My point simplifies things assuming that if someone buys one they wont buy the other, which I actually don't agree with. Liking 4e does not preclude anyone from buying Pathfinder, nor the does the reverse. But it does mean that there may be two major systems that people have to buy for, and because of the GSL, 3pp are restricted in supporting both. 3pp like Necromancer have to choose which to support and because of the draconian nature of the GSL I'm not surprised that they are staying with 3.5e and its derivatives. It just means one may have to buy two systems to play with all of the available product out there.

My whole point... It's market share that will determine the outcome of this GSL fiasco and you have WOTC and its lawyers on one side and Open Gaming on the other. Historically speaking T$R did do itself any favors by restricting its game and IP; in fact it was WOTC's opening up of 3e to everyone that saved D&D and made it the powerhouse it was. So long as the GSL is not Open Gaming, 3pp will not put any major support behind 4e. Heres to hoping that everyone has room for both.

 

[Banshee16]

Hmm, I wonder why 4E isn't selling so well at his store?

Customer: "Pardon me, I've heard there's a new edition of D&D..."

Owner: "Have you checked out Pathfinder yet?"

Baffling...

Interestingly, I've got four stores in my city saying the exact same thing. I'm really not sure that it's just an owner turning customers away. The customers seem pretty much split in half, from what I'm hearing around here.....and Paizo is getting talked about alot.

Others on these boards have suggested that nobody really knows Paizo, unless they're regulars on the boards....but really, whether it's EN World or somewhere else, I'm sure that a pretty large number of players follow up to some degree. It's just that many of them probably spend most of the time lurking. So I bet that there's a fair number of people who either know of Paizo, or of the products they make.

Banshee

 

[dragonlordofpoondari]

We are losing access to the products of creative minds ... people with proven track records. So -- if they don't happen to work at WOTC, I won't get to enjoy their work in 4E??!

If WOTC is not going to change the GSL, I hope they hire Paizo or Necromancer adventure designers to create official adventures.

This is more my fear than my hope. It seems apparent that buying up the creative minds of the competition may well be WotC's strategy. Judging form the impact of their GSL, why wouldn't it be? If I was working at Wizards, that's exactly what I'd be thinking.

It kind of seems like WotC is strongly interested in establishing an ersatz D&D monopoly. If this is the case, then the creativity that comes along with fair competition is not as important to WotC as gaining a financial stranglehold on D&D. This tells me that they might not the responsible stewards of the world's most popular role-playing game that they once were. WotC is eliminating or buying up all of its competition ... I don't see how that can be good for my beloved game. WotC protects their newly exclusive intellectual property, and we get mediocre gaming material? Bah. Is this the direction we want our game heading? Not me. I for one am a little worried about my lovely game, my D&D.

I know I can play whatever I want at my own table. That's fine. What saddens me is direction these stewards are taking the game that's been with me my whole life. I will miss being able to proudly declare that I play D&D. They're losing a very old customer here, not just because I take issue with the new direction of the rules (I admit I'll miss some of those dead hefers), but more importantly with the business ethics of those at the helm. Making the best product no longer seems their utmost priority. The talented folks who create RPGs are not doing it to get rich, they do it for love of the game; as with all forms of media, this passion leads to better products. It feels like WotC has lost their way ...

 

[FunkBGR]

/Aside
I don't think giving anecdotes of game stores supporting either side is indicative of anything.

As a 3rd Party Publisher, Paizo doesn't have the recognition that Wizards has. They state this themselves.

/Rerail
I too was also hoping for some Necro product for 4th Edition. I still have faith that something will come through though.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I'm very surprised at this.

I thought the whole turn of products including NOT doing the Tome of Horrors for 4e was Clark's way of getting to 4e without endangering the 'classic' material?

Is anyone aware of what some potential problems could be with the Advanced Player's book for example?

 

[Rystil Arden]

Ok just our two posts show about 50+ people introduced to D&D by another player versus 2 that were not. Anecdotal, but still leads to my point that name recognition is not that important when choosing a game system. Its all about the community and local network of players.

Yup, you're certainly right. I never disagreed with that, and I think few would. You just chose to word your initial challenge as if there was literally no one on this site who got into the game another way. The danger of absolutes and all that

 

[Jasperak]

/Aside
I don't think giving anecdotes of game stores supporting either side is indicative of anything.

As a 3rd Party Publisher, Paizo doesn't have the recognition that Wizards has. They state this themselves.

I think that is part of the question that I brought up. To put more succinctly, what does the D&D brand mean towards bringing new people into the hobby. Does it matter what the game is or who makes the current game? Do more people go into Borders to buy 4e because they read a novel or played a computer game or are more people introduced to the hobby by someone that already plays. Name recognition does not mean nearly as much if more people are brought into the hobby by people that already play.

Those above anecdotes are vital to the discussion because if you have owners and other people in the hobby recommending one over the other, I think that has a large effect on market share. Now granted, just because one poster says their FLGSs are leaning toward Pathfinder that does not mean all of them are. But the more people post about what is happening at their FLGSs, the more we all understand what is going on. I think all of us in this hobby have a vested interest in how this GSL v. OGL thing plays out, because it will shape the future of our hobby in the long term.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

He still has hope, optimism, is communicating, it is clear he still wants to support 4E...its not all bad.

Just kinda bad.

It's all bad until WotC state that they want to work with the 3PP to fix the GSL so that there will actually be some 4E 3PP. Until then, it's a fiasco. All of Clark's optimism isn't worth much if WotC are happy with the situation as it stands.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

The GSL isn't the largest "unmitigated disaster".

No, sirs, the largest unmitigated disaster is that you have a top-notch 3pp who wants to support the current version of D&D and cannot do so because of the frickin' license issues.

Some publishers want to stay 3e. Fine.

Some want to do PF. Fine.

Some want to do 4e by dodging the GSL. Sorta fine.

But here you have a guy who earnestly says he's all about 4e, wants to do it the "right" way in terms of licensing, and cannot do so.

That just sucks.

WP