Necromancer Games NOT going with current GSL.

[Wyrmshadows]

Not surprised at all.

I like Clark and Necromancer Games and believe that his early enthusiastic support for 4e and WoTC was due to the fact that he had more faith in WoTC than they deserved. The guy obviously loves D&D and really wanted to support 4e but even he, a very enthusiastic early supporter, now sees what many have seen early on...

WoTC is attempting to destroy Open Gaming by getting major 3pps to sign up onto the GSL denying themselves the opportunity to go back to the OGL effectively making them all pawns of WoTC's corporate decisions. Anyone hitching their wagon to that abomination is just setting themselves up for a world of hurt when WoTC decides to remove even the carrot that the GSL is leaving only the stick.

WoTC had to know the reaction that many would have to the GSL. I forsaw it as soon as I heard that it was going to be more restrictive. Certainly, WoTC foresaw that companies like Green Ronin and Paizo would balk at handing over unique/successful IP to WoTC control.

IMO WoTC doesn't really want 3pp support for D&D and the GSL was offered merely to prevent a storm of nerd rage and outright rebellion. The GSL is a PR move, nothing more. When 5e comes around even the GSL will be gone. Call me a cynic, but IMO every company that builds their IP around 4e will be doomed with the coming of 5e. Unlike those who stuck with the OGL to begin with, these folks will have to shelve their IP permanently or create entirely new game systems to support it.

Thank God Ryan Dancy was a man of vision.

This whole thing is sad.



Wyrmshadows

 

[Kunimatyu]

What a shame - I really want Tome of Horrors 4e.

This, in my mind, is the biggest proof positive that WotC's GSL has failed, and with no 3rd-party publishers to help them along, it's going to be harder to sustain 4th Edition.

I mean, I really like 4e, design decisions and all, and this has me upset.

 

[Kunimatyu]

IMO WoTC doesn't really want 3pp support for D&D and the GSL was offered merely to prevent a shitstorm of nerd rage and outright rebellion.

When none of the major 3pp have signed on, and several are producing 4e products NOT under the GSL, I'm pretty sure the "outright rebellion" is a go.

It's sad, too, because I bet the offending bits (no OGL, we can sue you whenever we want) could come out of the GSL with no real hurt to WotC.

 

[TerraDave]

He still has hope, optimism, is communicating, it is clear he still wants to support 4E...its not all bad.

Just kinda bad.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Wow, does that suck. What ever happened to Clark saying that the GSL doesn't have him shaken? I'd be really curious to know what he wants clarified so Necro will release products. I'm not knocking Clark at all, I'm just curious why the sudden turn around... In any case, that isn't something I expected and it sucks hard core. I was really looking forward to the Advanced Player's Guide too...

 

[VanRichten]

To be honest I am not at all surprised. Generally speaking anyone who reads the GSL will find it not in their favor. Though if this what WOTC intended, I can honestly say they succeeded. However should that be true then the gaming community as a whole has hurt because of it.

 

[Sunderstone]

IMO WoTC doesn't really want 3pp support for D&D

I agree with this (my opinion).
I think (again my opinion) WotC wants 4E to be way more profitable than 3E was (and rightly so), Its obvious that beyond Core book sales, 3PPs did alot of things way better than they did and took a good share of the market.

From adventures (Paizo, Goodman, Necromancer, etc) to Settings (Ptolus, Freeport, Wilderlands etc), to Monster books (Necro's Tome of Horrors, GR's Advanced Bestiary, etc), 3PPs seemed to make better products. WotC had a few gems like the XPH, Dragonomicon, etc but they seemed fewer and far between. Probably why they are so against the OGL (and rightly so from a corporate standpoint).

Just my coppers.

 

[Kaladhan]

I really like that Clark takes time to inform his fans about stuff like this. I understand his reasoning and wishes NG the best of luck in the future. I really like what they do and hope they continue doing it.

Sadly, I intend to play 4E, and the lack of 3PP is going to be missed.

 

[Gothmog]

Interesting thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago at "the" FLGS of NYC.
I was talking to the owner and he said beyond the initial sales due to it being new it wasnt selling all that well. He also asked me if I had checked out Pathfinder yet. It seems Pathfinder is selling well.

He said 4E is too different and didnt seem to like it. He also thought the GSL was ridiculous (though I forget his exact wording).

Im just stating this because NYC is a well poulated city and this particular FLGS is pretty well known, so I dont know how much of "a large portion of current D&D players" they will lose. I know its just one FLGS in one city (and im not saying its the RPG capital of the world) but what are you basing your assumption on?

First, no matter how popular Pathfinder gets, it won't ever have the name recognition of D&D. Most casual gamers won't have any clue what Pathfinder is, and will likely (and rightly) assume its not D&D, but some other game. And to be honest, why would a casual gamer buy a module or book for a game he doesn't play? Granted, someone who frequents these boards (or maybe the WotC boards) might know what Pathfinder is, but I'd estimate easily 80% of the gamers out there will have no clue. I'd be amazed if Pathfinder system materials could sell 1/10th the amount of pretty much any 4e product for this reason.

And second, while you have anecdotal evidence of D&D 4e not selling well in NYC, in Springfield MO, St Louis, and Columbia MO (places where I know FLGS owners), D&D 4e is selling like mad, even now. They can barely keep PHBs in stock (and two of these stores ordered and sold 120 PHBs in July), and all three stores ran through at least 30 DMGs and MMs in the last month (ie July- a month after 4e was released). 4e is selling well- its Amazon ratings bear that out, as well as the size of the original print run and how well its still selling. We'll have a better idea the longer 4e goes if it can keep this up, but I'm guessing it will- espeically when the FR setting, magic item book and Martial Power come out.

In any case, I feel for Clark and Necro. I know the GSL is restrictive (and pretty stupid if you ask me), but not supporting 4e (or whatever the current version of D&D is) is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot if you're looking to have a viable rpg company, simply due to the small sales numbers for pretty much any other rpg out there (barring maybe White Wolf).

 

[Wyrmshadows]

He still has hope, optimism, is communicating, it is clear he still wants to support 4E...its not all bad.

Just kinda bad.

Nah, he is putting on a brave face, that's all. He's just trying to keep Necromancer Games' fans hopeful but the reality is very bleak indeed. IMO WoTC isn't going to grant Clark any special dispensation because WoTC is no longer being run by gamers...even if the designers are themselves gamers...it is run by bean counters for whom the bottom line is the ONLY consideration. WoTC doesn't care about and doesn't necessarily support, except in name only, Open Gaming or 3pp support for 4e.



Wyrmshadows