Necromancer Games-update by Orcus

[Mistwell]

Also, and this is just my personal opinion of course, but many might share it, the stuff that WotC produces is just head and shoulders above what they produced for 3.x. Sure, there is some debate regarding the forgotten realms campaign stuff, but the rest has been very well received. Dragon is about a 100 times more balanced and useful (the crunch anyway) than before. All in all, maybe there is just less need of 3PP's than before.

Could they improve certain areas? Yes indeed, not everything is perfect. But it's definitely far better than during the last edition, IMO, YMMV, ETC.

Cheers

I agree, though I feel their modules are weaker in 4e. I think third parties could really take advantage of that and produce some great adventures.

 

[Crothian]

I agree, though I feel their modules are weaker in 4e. I think third parties could really take advantage of that and produce some great adventures.

Overall I've found adventures in general to be weaker in 4e. I don't know if that is bad luck on the ones I've seen or if there is something about 4e that causes me to not like the adventures. I like the game just fine.

 

[BryonD]

Maybe Mongoose isn't selling because the stuff they produced has been mostly horribly broken.

That is pretty much why I didn't buy much of their 3E stuff.....

I agree, and it could still happen. GG seems to be expanding their repetoire, so maybe... /shrug

Also going back into 3E....

As Paizo has stated, there is a certain value to doing your own thing. Also, some might think that it is better to be the top dog/only producer for a small crowd of people than be one small fish amongst many others.

Yes, I certainly see that point.
Funny that some many players all see their own stuff as more profitable than 4E. Or do none of them care about success?

Go re-read the OP. Why are all those companies along the publishing / distribution path so firmly opposed to selling profitable products?

Was GR and NG so big and famous in 2001 already? I must admit that I wasn't paying attention to 3PP stuff at that time, so I do not recall. But 4e is still only 1 year old, lots of things could happen.

Necro had a module out at Gencon when 3E was released and had Creature Collection out BEFORE the Monster Manual.

Yes, lots of things could still happen.

 

[Obryn]

Ok, so Mongoose tried and failed....
And there are probably other factors involved in that one failure.

And yet, they don't try again.
They expect that everything else they are publishing will sell better 4E stuff? Why would they think that?

Or they are choosing to sell products that will produce fewer sales? Why would they do that?

They are focusing on their core product lines which they completely control - they've been moving in this direction since before 3.5, which is one of the reasons they survived that bust so well.

Actually, it is.

Of course, and people seeking to sell profitable products go to where demand is. It isn't like the D&D 3PP field is a secret. Publishers are aware of it and are choosing to stay away.

Define "a lot". I (again) agree that ENWorld is a good place to come and find 4E fans who want 3PP.

If they could make big bucks selling 4E, they would.

You are acting like this is magic. It's not. Someone has to produce these books - and most of the big players are pretty committed to their own stuff right now, without unlimited resources to branch out.

Ok, so explain why Clark made his comments about Necromancer's plans.

....I think that's more or less exactly what he was saying, by and large.

Clark was one of the big players at the apex of d20's third-party quality boom. He's got the resources, the connections, and the desire. Hopefully he'll make a good product and it will sell, but the problems he was citing are hardly endemic to 4e sales in particular.

There has been product. There is nothing shady in what I have claimed.

Using the unadvertised, unproofread, un-buzzed Quintessential Wizard as a case in point is not exactly above-board.

And Wraith Recon is not an example of a quality, compelling setting.

If there are no high-quality, comparable products, what examples could you possibly be using?

When Earthdawn is released (and if it's a good product), we can talk.

-O

 

[BryonD]

Also, and this is just my personal opinion of course, but many might share it, the stuff that WotC produces is just head and shoulders above what they produced for 3.x. Sure, there is some debate regarding the forgotten realms campaign stuff, but the rest has been very well received. Dragon is about a 100 times more balanced and useful (the crunch anyway) than before. All in all, maybe there is just less need of 3PP's than before.

Could they improve certain areas? Yes indeed, not everything is perfect. But it's definitely far better than during the last edition, IMO, YMMV, ETC.

Cheers

I am assuming you are specifically talking about supplemental stuff.

I can't comment on 4E quality, I stopped after the core.

But, there were easily 5 or 6 3PPs that I considered superior to WotC for new content back during 3X. So it is easy for me to imagine that you are correct.

That said, I know a lot of people (I get to use "a lot" also ) who bought more product per month that WotC can put out. I bought almost everything they published AND still bought stacks of 3PP.

 

[Obryn]

Funny that some many players all see their own stuff as more profitable than 4E. Or do none of them care about success?

er... this shift happened before 4e.

It was a good idea after the release of 3.5, too.

-O

 

[Twowolves]

Necro had a module out at Gencon when 3E was released and had Creature Collection out BEFORE the Monster Manual.

Not to nit-pick, but I don't think Necromancer Games did either of these. The module was Green Ronin's Death in Freeport, and the Creature Collection was Sword & Sorcery Studios/White Wolf.

 

[BryonD]

er... this shift happened before 4e.

It was a good idea after the release of 3.5, too.

-O

And 4E had zero impact on undoing it.

Of course a nearly decade old product had lost its appeal.

And right after 3.5 was bad. But it was still very good compared to now. Go back and read the OP. Did Necro run into that after 3.5?

WotCs 3E product sales were down as well late in the game. 4E was a re-boot. Now a re-boot does not mean a repeat. But it is a fresh start.

Even with the "new and improved" GSL, it isn't a question of repeating 3X, it is a question of showing a pulse.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

er... this shift happened before 4e.

It was a good idea after the release of 3.5, too.

-O

This

The main successes in 3PP during the second half of 3rd Edition's timeframe came from 3PPs releasing non-D&D systems using the OGL. True20, M&M, Iron Heroes, Retro-Clones, ect.

 

[BryonD]

Not to nit-pick, but I don't think Necromancer Games did either of these. The module was Green Ronin's Death in Freeport, and the Creature Collection was Sword & Sorcery Studios/White Wolf.

By all means nit-pick.
You are right about Death in Freeport.

But didn't Clark have Wizard's Amulet at the same time? And Creature Collection was Clark, but you are right he did that through S&S. Necromancer must have come later.