D&D 5E Necromancer playability

[Barolo]

Mildly offtopic: This reminded me of some funny moments playing 2e. At that time we would generally regard big numbers of weak creatures quite underwhelming at high levels. Anyway, two high-level fighters with their armies in a Greyhalk campaign were about to invade a fortress of a follower of Iuz. These two guys enjoyed having their armies, and wanted to use them in game, but were not keen on letting them get to the thick of the fray, as their numbers could suffer and they didn't want to bother recruiting more. So they decided to hire a bard, march with their armies to the gates of the castle, when the bard would start performing a "warsong" and the army should execute some choreography, while two of them would do all the hard work on their own.

If all this was not silly enough, at the moment they started the invasion, they brought to the game a VHS recorded and played on the room TV what they revealed to be the song and choreography they sent their armies and bard to showcase:

https://youtu.be/qZUn-KtTNmA?t=60

 

[Schmoe]

Nothing wrong with hundreds of skeletons in my opinion, except for bookkeeping. In order to help with bookkeeping, I would track collective hit points and treat them a bit like minions - every 5 HP of damage against the group kills one, ignoring things like overkill. You can also use average saves and average damage for when the group is targeted by AoE attacks.

The real question, though, is where did all those corpses come from?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Well, I wouldn't allow it as a DM, and I wouldn't play in a game with it being allowed. I wouldn't inflict that level of unfun on a group for the benefit of one player. Rolling 101 attacks, tracking 101 hit points, etc. every single turn plus the DM having to attack them isn't my idea of a fun game.

You explicitly took the issue of whether or not it's allowed off the table in the OP:

Now, leaving aside arguments of whether you would allow that in your game or not, or cheesegaming, etc.

All I'm saying is that you're vastly overestimating the difficulty. HP tracking can be a pain, but not all 101 skeletons are taking damage every turn, and as the DM you have the right to simplify even further and e.g. just track one skeleton's HP at a time until it's dead (i.e. monsters focus fire). Attacks are pretty easy: if 101 skeletons are shooting at an AC 19 adult red dragon, roll 101 dice and count up how many dice are 15+. Multiply that by 5 + Necromancer's proficiency, and that's your damage. If you want to simplify attacks even further that is easy too: roll ten dice, count hits, multiply by 10 * (5 + prof). The players won't object to the simplification because ten dice have a probability distribution pretty similar to a hundred dice.

There are a couple more corner cases that will come up occasionally (AoEs like dragon breath--although that will mostly just subtract skeletons from the total). Those are left as an exercise for the reader.

 

[CydKnight]

Well, I wouldn't allow it as a DM, and I wouldn't play in a game with it being allowed. I wouldn't inflict that level of unfun on a group for the benefit of one player. Rolling 101 attacks, tracking 101 hit points, etc. every single turn plus the DM having to attack them isn't my idea of a fun game.

I've seen 100 skeletons battle in a game before and it's really not that bad. Depending on how the battlefield is set-up there is almost no scenario where all of them will be attacking in one round. Also, by level 20, I am guessing that many creatures being encountered at that level will have the means of taking out a fair amount more than 1 skeleton per round. The newly released UE on mass combat may help as well but I have not seen them applied live yet.

 

[ccs]

Technically, by RAW, a 20th-level necromancer can animate and control 101 skeletons/zombies. Every day. Now, leaving aside arguments of whether you would allow that in your game or not, or cheesegaming, etc., the fact is that this would be super annoying for all other players and the DM. But if you came up with some sort of house rule that could combine these creatures into one creature of equivalent power, would you as a player in that game, be happy with that compromise?

Player wants to raise 101 skeletons? I'm fine with that as the DM.
BUT:
1) The players going to have to work it out with the other 3-4 players at the table....
2) The player has to provide a mini for each skeleton. Not a token of some sort, not random minis being proxied as skellies, skeleton minitures. And they have to be clearly #d in case it matters for effects, HP tracking, etc.

As for combining them into one conglomerate creature? Nope. I won't let you do that as a player. And I wouldn't do it as a player either (because the whole point of me raising 101 skeletons is to bury the foe with #s - WWII Russian infantry style).
If you want one or two large creatures? Research how to craft golems.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

By 20th level (and hopefully much before that) most adventurers no longer need to slog through dungeons and whatnot. Ideally, they are more well-renown in the world and play on a much larger scale. Having all those undead minions is not bad, but I also don't expect the high level necromancer to be dungeoneering with his whole skeletal posse. Seems more interesting to determine how he uses his skeletal minions in larger scale, big picture plans rather than in the day to day minutiae. If they necromancer and his fellow adventurers do travel, I imagine he would bring some of his more elite undead while leaving the rest to continue working on other goals. Perhaps excavating an artifact, laying siege to an enemy capitol, or other things that would not necessitate their physical presence.

 

[Gardens & Goblins]

By 20th level (and hopefully much before that) most adventurers no longer need to slog through dungeons and whatnot. Ideally, they are more well-renown in the world and play on a much larger scale.

Agreed. If, by 20the level, my character can't get a kingdom to provide an army of three to do.. whatever the heck my character wants them to do, then I've been doing something reaaaallly wrong.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Satyrn]

Mildly offtopic: . . .

If all this was not silly enough, at the moment they started the invasion, they brought to the game a VHS recorded and played on the room TV what they revealed to be the song and choreography they sent their armies and bard to showcase:

https://youtu.be/qZUn-KtTNmA?t=60

I was expecting the Spanish Inquisition Rick Astley.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

By 20th level (and hopefully much before that) most adventurers no longer need to slog through dungeons and whatnot. Ideally, they are more well-renown in the world and play on a much larger scale. Having all those undead minions is not bad, but I also don't expect the high level necromancer to be dungeoneering with his whole skeletal posse. Seems more interesting to determine how he uses his skeletal minions in larger scale, big picture plans rather than in the day to day minutiae. If they necromancer and his fellow adventurers do travel, I imagine he would bring some of his more elite undead while leaving the rest to continue working on other goals. Perhaps excavating an artifact, laying siege to an enemy capitol, or other things that would not necessitate their physical presence.

Also, skeletons start going obsolete anyway around 13th level. You'd probably keep a handful around just because they're cheap and you're a Necromantic sicko who loves death--but if you're going to have dozens or hundreds of minions, you probably want them to be elementals, demons, and (Geas-ed + Mass Suggestion-ed) wights instead of skeletons. Blowing all of your spell slots on recasting Animate Dead every single day is a tragic waste.