Necromancy Isn't Evil

[Clay_More]

Thanks Fieari and VirgilCaine

I have been playtesting the Spirit Lore spell slightly since it was last posted, and one thing that one of my players remarked could be cool was if especially unique spells might require the caster to locate a very specific grave. And Evil spellcasters might demand that the caster fulfill something to obtain a spell (they might even demand to be ressurected).

The thing about the spirits loosing "patience" is also a good idea, I think I will try to include it somehow in the spell. I have made rules for spirits, I did post them already and there is a "spirit appeasing" ritual amongst these, so it could be used to keep the spirits content (but at a cost and it takes time, etc.). But if just used without paying the spirits anything, I think the spirits would grow tired (even though the spell itself includes a small gift to the spirits, it would be insufficient for prolonged use).

Spirit Lore only grants the Item Creation feat and thus all other requirements for creating a magic item are still usable. I think it was kind expected from the way the spell is described that it doesn't waver any other requirements for creating the item that you use the feat for creating.

Anyways, thanks you guys, hope you will still be around for the next batch.

 

[Clay_More]

I also began working on spells that duplicate the life giving powers, starting with the simple Tyre's Fleshpuppet that I just posted.

Tyre’s Fleshpuppet
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Effect: Creates a living flesh-creature from dead tissue
Duration: Instantaneous

Tyre’s Fleshpuppet uses flesh and muscles from deceased creatures to create a new, living creature. The caster casts the spell on the stitched together material components. This brings life into the small creation, which becomes an actual, living, breathing creature. The Fleshpuppet is mostly used for sacrificial purposes. It has 2 HD, a Constitution score of 14 and 13 hp. The creature is size Tiny and weighs roughly 15 pounds. A Fleshpuppet doesn’t have any limbs or appendages; it isn’t able to move on its own accord. The Fleshpuppet is not even vaguely human in appearance, it is a small, round ball of flesh and tissue that lacks even basic visual organs, hideous and revolting to look at.
The Fleshpuppet fails all Saving Throws automatically and some Necromancers have been known to use the Fleshpuppet as a target for spells that steal life or energy.
Material Components: 15 pounds of muscle and flesh. The heart from a creature of size Tiny or less. All components are stitched together.


Detect Spirits
Divination
Level: Brd 4, Clr 3, Drd 3, Rgr 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Quarter circle emanating from the character to the extreme of the range
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The caster can detect the presence of spirits. While the spell lasts, they caster can see spirits as if though they were living creatures. They are still transparent and vague, so the caster will never confuse the spirits with living creatures. By studying a single spirit for a prolonged period of time, the caster can gain additional information about it, according to the time he spends observing it.

1st Round: The caster can see if the spirit seems to be attached to a certain object, location or person. The caster can also see if the spirit is using any of its powers.

2nd Round: The caster can detect which emotion it is that empowers the spirit, as well as the spirits alignment. If the spirit is not empowered by an emotion, but is a nature or elemental spirit, the caster will also be able of detecting this.

3rd Round: The caster can detect if the spirit is able of using any form of manifestation, both animating and ethereal. The caster can also detect the strongest of the spirits Powers, but not any lesser Powers it may know.

 

[Ferret]

The flesh puppet may be evil. You stitch up flesh of a creature, which leads to the Frankenstein argument. Definatly not as black and white as Animate dead. What sort of flesh does it need to be? From inteligent creaures or can it be from dead animals?

I like the Detect spirit spell, I would love to see the mechanics (or stats, which ever applies) for your spirits.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Describe the Fleshpuppet better. Make sure you emphasize that its a torso and a head, thats all.
And, IMO it's definitely evil.

 

[Clay_More]

Okay, I just updated Spirit Lore significantly and added a descripton for Flesh Puppet. I am still unsure if Flesh Puppet should be Evil, since it merely keeps the life pulsating in something that only recently died.

The following things are what I am working on at the moment in regards to spells.

-Duplicating life: The Tyre spell is only the first of the ones I have ideas for, want to add a small list of spells where a Necromancer tried to create and mimick life. Naturally, there are a few of the Tyre spells that are practical in other ways, I will post Tyre's Grafted Strength once I have it with me to the university wherefrom I use comp.

-Spiritism: I have made some rules for spirits, not really finish yet, to add that dimension to Necromancers. It already exists a little bit in spells like Speak with Dead, I will put it as an attached file when I get around to it, been kind of busy lately with some other writing work.

Basically, I don't want spirits to be yet another type of "monsters" with CR and all that, which I tried to make spirits that are not really opponents, but more of a roleplaying factor in a game. Anyways, hope you guys appreciate the editions to the spells, they are based on your feedback

 

[Ferret]

The Tyre spell is less evil then it was, it certainly crosses moral bounderies. Maybe if you state that the creature needn't be intellegent, or is usually from an animal (butcher?).

 

[Dogbrain]

Is radioactivity bad? If you ask most people, they would viscerally respond that it is bad. Given that I work in medical research with radioactive materials, sometimes daily, I might beg to differ.

Likewise, is research that uses human bodies bad? In the modern era, it very much depends on how one acquires those bodies. Not so long ago, there was often no or insufficient provision for legitimate acquisition, and physicians resorted to paying grave-robbers.

Radioactivity is powerful and can be dangerous. Irresponsible use of radioactive materials can be very bad, indeed. It is this potential of "can be very bad, indeed", that leads to the public perception that radioactivity is bad.

 

[ecliptic]

A druid would argue that even animals have souls. So simply having a lower intelligence doesn't stop the spell from being evil.

I am still unsure if Flesh Puppet should be Evil, since it merely keeps the life pulsating in something that only recently died.

It would be. I mean to make it a living breathing creature you need to use a soul from something. Which is to trap a soul in a decayed corpse.

Likewise, is research that uses human bodies bad? In the modern era, it very much depends on how one acquires those bodies. Not so long ago, there was often no or insufficient provision for legitimate acquisition, and physicians resorted to paying grave-robbers.

You can't compare real life with fantasy. D&D most certainly has an afterlife. Evil and good, aswell as chaos and law is very real.

In D&D using a corpse isn't considered 'evil', its what you do with that corpse and soul thats evil.

 

[Alchemist]

I mean to make it a living breathing creature you need to use a soul from something. Which is to trap a soul in a decayed corpse..

I'm not sure that this position is actually taken by the RAW. This sounds more like your opinion based on what you think it takes (in D&D) to keep flesh "alive". IRL we can keep a body working well past the time that the mind has extinguished. Why can't magic do a similar task without invoking the posession of a spirit?

Even if you disagree with me, why can't an artificial replica of a soul be temporarily created to fuel such a spell, if that's what you feel it takes?

 

[ecliptic]

'm not sure that this position is actually taken by the RAW. This sounds more like your opinion based on what you think it takes (in D&D) to keep flesh "alive". IRL we can keep a body working well past the time that the mind has extinguished. Why can't magic do a similar task without invoking the posession of a spirit?

Magic can, by using negative energy. Which it shows by using negative energy to trap a soul to make intelligent undead. Every living and breathing creature has intelligence.

Even if you disagree with me, why can't an artificial replica of a soul be temporarily created to fuel such a spell, if that's what you feel it takes?

So why wouldn't that be evil? You give something life knowing full well it will only last the spell's duration?