Necromancy Isn't Evil

[Clay_More]

hero4hire, I agree that Mindless Undead shouldn't be evil, but I still think that they should radiate because of the powers that created them.

Ferret, you caught the point I was trying to make.

Alchemist, thanks, I changed the wording of that spell to "Drain" instead of "Damage".

VirgilCaine, thats a good point, and besides, the spell just says the flesh needs to be fresh, it doesn't say that the Necromancer needs to have killed the animal himself (one "could" imagine a Necromancer simply locating a recently slain animal in the forest if he was an extremist animal lover).

Keeper of Secrets, really love that you call it "insensitive", hehehehe
I think I would feel like my feelings had been really violated if someone just cast Finger of Death on me. Thanks for the compliments about the spells.


Now, here is a spell which is more clearly evil.

Aging Touch
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Clr 6, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Aging Touch causes the target to grow older, while giving the caster the power of the lost life energy.
A touch from the caster’s hand, which has a faint glow of grey, swirling energies, causes the target to age one year instantly. Only living creatures can be affected, not constructs, elementals or undead. Most of the time, aging a single year will not bring any immediate ill effects. Only if the target was one year from going into a new age category (see page 109 of Player’s Handbook for a description of age categories). Anyone who is aged into a new age category through the use of this spell will only suffer the Ability Score penalties for the new age category, the beneficial Ability Score modifiers only occur when the target has actually reached the age defined in the age category. For example, if the spell is cast two times on a 51 year old human, the character will be physically the equivalent of a 53 year old human (which will decrease his Str, Dex and Con by -2). Mentally, the character is still 51 years old, so it will still take two years before he gains the beneficial effects of being Old age (a +1 bonus to Int, Wis and Cha). This physical aging can not be reversed through any means short of a Miracle spell which will bring back 1 year of life energy to the target.
The caster of the spell gains an amount of XP equal to the HD of the target times ten. Thus, casting the spell on a 1st level commoner gives the caster 10 XP, casting it on a 10th level fighter gives the caster 100 XP. If the spell was cast on a creature with an average lifespan of 200 years or more, the spell only gives 5 XP per HD (DM’s call, but dwarves, elves and gnomes have an average lifespan of more than 200 years). The spell will only bring the caster XP if the target is a sentient creature (Intelligence 3 or above). The base Intelligence of the creature is used for this purpose (it is, for example, not possible to cast Fox’s Cunning on a cow in order for it to qualify as a sentient creature). No form of magical enchantment can make an unintelligent creature qualify to be a viable target of the spell (including Awaken).
The spell will still affect an animal, but the crude life energy will not empower the caster in the same manner as the powerful energy of a sentient creature. The spell will not affect magically created, living creatures (such as the creatures created by the Tyre spells). It is often possible to affect a creature a few times with the spell before the creature notices the negative effect of the spell. For example, if the caster tells the target that it is some kind of beneficial spell, it would often be possible to cast it a single time or two without the target noticing the loss of energy.
A fortitude save negates the spell. If the spell is blocked by spell resistance, if the caster fails to hit his target or if the target makes his fortitude save the caster will gain no XP.
Focus: A small totem made of clay and the hairs of a person that died of old age.

 

[Arkhandus]

By the text as written, Tyre's Fleshpuppet doesn't create an intelligent, sentient creature, it merley creates a living creature. There's a great deal of difference. Plants, fungi, bacteria, and viruses are all living creatures, but they have no distinguishable sentience or thought processes; they're unintelligent, unthinking, unfeeling lifeforms. Like a golem or undead skeleton, only alive. So the Fleshpuppet spell itself shouldn't have the Evil descriptor, any moreso than a spell that creates fruit to be eaten or a spell such as Cure Disease. Within the confines of D&D, this spell wouldn't be capital-E Evil. Sacrificing the fleshpuppet afterward might be a minor evil act (again, no moreso than casting Cure Disease or killing a normal plant), as would simply letting the fleshpuppet die otherwise after creating it in the form of a defenseless fleshbag.

The fleshpuppet could be animated by positive energy, making it alive without giving it a soul, but it couldn't gain intelligence or awareness without being given a soul first. Nothing in the RAW says that it takes a soul to make something living. Making a corpse undead through Animate Dead or whatnot does not bind a soul to it, only negative energy. Unintelligent undead are only able to do what they are commanded to, because the command 'programs' them with the commander's intent; they don't 'understand' the command, as they're mindless, but the person controlling them uses his or her link to them (through rebuking/commanding or through animating spells) to imprint the 'program' of the intended actions, programming triggered responses in the undead's animating negative energy, in order to make them move as intended by the commander.... Intelligent undead either still have their soul, or at least have a magical imprint of their mind, but it is still the negative energy that animates and moves them.

Remember, spells like True Resurrection can bring someone back to life even if their corpse was animated as an undead, though weaker spells like Raise Dead cannot. This is likely because the soul retains some link to its former body (otherwise Raise Dead wouldn't require the original corpse), and it takes more powerful magic to sever that link and allow a soul to be True Resurrected; T.R. doesn't destroy the undead corpse, but it severs whatever soul-link had been restricting the soul's freedom from the old body.

 

[Al]

Hi,

Just a couple of comments about Aging Touch, in particular the sentience clause.

1. Sentient is defined as "Intelligence 5" but it is generally taken as 3 (since this is the lowest possible score that any PC could get). Typo or deliberate change?

2. The intelligence clause has a loophole due to potential synergy with the Awaken spell. The loophole enables the caster to buy newborn calves (at 10gp), Awaken it via limited wish* (300xp), age it to death (25 years) gaining approximately 700xp in the process (I've given cows 3HD in line with mules and camels, and knocked off 50xp since it won't be at full HD for the first few years of life) and hence make a net gain of 400xp. Since XP can easily be turned into gold via item creation, this potentially creates an infinite XP cycle. Perhaps this can be closed somehow- add a clause stating that *any* artificial increase in Intelligence is excluded?

*Druids can do it for 250xp (multiclass druid/necro/mystic theurge is the best bet) but no self-respecting druid would commit such an atrocity against nature, and no self-respecting DM would permit him to do so without stripping his powers.

Otherwise, really nice spell

 

[Clay_More]

Arkhandus, you seem to have gotten the point about the Fleshpuppet. I think it is a determined fact in roleplaying games that killing a living creature doesn't make you evil. Summoning a creature for no other reason that using it to spring traps is not evil.

I have thought about mindless undead as merely programmable computers. Their animating energy is evil, but they merely act as an extension of the creators will. You made your point very clearly, good point.


Al, I changed the Intelligence to 3 instead of 5, it wasn't intentional, I merely didn't have my MM to check if an Intelligence of 3 would qualify any animals for the spell. I also added in that no form of magic enchantment can cause a creature to qualify for the spell if it wouldn't qualify normally.

The spell is supposed to be usable only on thinking creatures like humanoids, giants etc. I was unsure about making a spell that gives you XP, but should a Necromancer find a way to use it on a wide scale, he also suffers some hefty payback from Good temples, paladins, adventuring parties. In a campaign where I playtested it, an old doctor had died in a small village and been replaced with a young man who appeared to be a very skilled healer. The young man offered his services for less than the old doctor and the village was happy. Some noticed though that they began feeling tired more easily and it seemed that the energy was seeping out of the villages. Naturally, the point was that the young man had caused the death of the old doctor to take his place. Being a healer, he could easily use his spells to mend wounds and take care of the ill, but he was secretly using Aging Touch to gain power from the villagers.

Anyways, here's another spell, hopefully not evil. Its an utility spell I thought up.


Claim Corpse
Necromancy
Level: Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Targets: Corpse touched
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Claim Corpse is used by Necromancers to protect any corpses they have found or collected. Sometimes it is used by good spellcasters to prevent a corpse from being animated as an undead.
Any corpse affected by Claim Corpse can only be animated by the same spellcaster that cast Claim Corpse. If another spellcaster wishes to animate the corpse as an undead, he must first remove Claim Corpse, for example by casting Dispel Magic.

 

[Clay_More]

I have some more spells, mostly Tyre spells as well as a single spell that is commonly used in combination with either the Fleshpuppet or Fleshbeast spells.


Drogmir’s Leechlink
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Drogmir’s Leechlink creates a connection to the target creature that the caster can use to drain life through. This life energy can be used to empower the casters own spells. To create a connection to a creature, the caster needs to succeed at a melee touch attack. The target will be allowed a Fortitude Saving Throw to resist the spell. If the target is affected, the connection is established and the target is allowed no further Saving Throws to resist the spell.
When one of the casters spells is subjected to dispelling magic, the caster can drain life through the Leechlink to empower his spell to resist the dispelling magic. As a free action that doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity, that caster can drain up to 10 hp. from his target to enforce his spell. Each Hit Point drained gives the caster a +1 bonus to his opposed caster check to resist dispelling magic. Only one spell is affected at a time, but the caster can enforce several spells if more than one of his spells is being affected by dispelling magic. Each spell requires its own sacrifice of Hit Points to be enforced though. It is only possible for the caster to drain 20 Hit Points from his target each round to enforce his own spells. It is possible for a target to be affected by several castings of Drogmir’s Leechlink.
It is possible to kill a target by the use of this spell. It is also possible for the caster to cast the spell on himself. If the target moves more than 1 mile away from the caster, the link is broken.
The spell is sometimes used in unison with such spells as Tyre’s Fleshbeast or Tyre’s Fleshpuppet.
Material Components: A handful of iron and coal dust.

Tyre’s Fleshbeast
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 30 minutes
Range: Touch
Effect: Creates a living fleshbeast from dead tissue
Duration: Instantaneous

Tyre’s Fleshbeast uses flesh and muscles from deceased creatures to create a new, living creature. Tyre’s Fleshbeast is a stronger version of Tyre’s Fleshpuppet. When the spell is cast into the fresh tissue that constitutes the material components, a living entity is created. The Fleshbeast has 5 HD, a Constitution score of 20 and 48 hp. The Fleshbeast regenerates one points of damage each round. The creature is size Tiny and weighs roughly 20 pounds. The beast doesn’t have any limbs of any kind and it can not move by its own accord. The Fleshbeast automatically fails all Saving Throws against spells. Just like the Fleshpuppet, the beast is often used as a target for other Necromantic spells that drain life.
Material Components: 15 lbs. of fresh muscle and flesh. The heart from a creature of size Tiny or less. All components are stitched together. The spell also requires 50 gp. worth of various chemical substances and fluids.

Tyre’s Grafted Strength
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Touch
Target: One living creature
Duration: 2 hours/caster level
Saving Throw: Fortitude (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: No (Harmless)

Tyre’s Grafted Strength enables the caster to take living muscles and flesh and graft them unto a living creature. This flesh will strengthen the target, reinforcing it and making it tougher.
Tyre’s Grafted Strength grants the recipient a +2 bonus to Strength and Constitution. This bonus is an inherent bonus; while the spell is active the creature will simply have its natural strength and endurance increased by this amount. Spells that drain Strength or Constitution will affect these Ability Score bonuses like as if though they were natural Ability Scores.
The spell has the benefit that it stacks with almost all other types of Ability Scores bonuses.
The grafted muscles and flesh will be attached unto the recipient’s body without being covered in skin. It will be clearly visible that the target is affected by the spell. During the last couple of hours of the duration, the flesh will begin to deteriorate and decay, falling of in lumps.
Material Components: The flesh and muscles of a creature of one size category smaller than the target or bigger. The flesh and muscles must come from a creature of the same general type as the target.

Tyre’s Mocking Life
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 day
Range: Touch
Target: Undead touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Tyre’s Mocking Life uses real muscles and flesh to turn an undead into a living creature. By carefully grafting living tissue and flesh over an undead and imbuing life into this tissue, the caster can convert some of the Negative Energy of the undead into Positive Energy. The undead creature can end up appearing exactly like a breathing, living creature once the transformation is complete.
Tyre’s Mocking Life has the following effects on the affected undead.

- The undead no longer radiates energy as an undead. Any spells that detects the undead will not detect the target.
- The undead appears to be a living creature to most observers. A spot check DC 30 will allow an observer to notice the true nature of the undead, but only if the observer is actively trying to divulge the nature of the undead.
- The undead has +10 Turn Resistance as its energies are partially Positive and partially Negative.
- The undead is immune to damage from spells that utilise Positive energy, such as the cure wounds spells. It will not heal damage from being affected by the cure wounds spells though.
- The undead has a +5 Profane bonus to its Fortitude Saving Throws.
- The undead can not be healed by the cause wounds spells.
- The undead becomes vulnerable to critical hits, like a living creature.

The effects of the spell are permanent and they can not be removed. Kuzhamir’s Blessing will not be able to affect any undead affected by Tyre’s Mocking Life.
Material Components: The fresh tissue, skin and muscles of a living creature of the same size as the target undead. Various alchemical and arcane herbs and compounds worth 250 gp. per HD of the target undead.

 

[Clay_More]

*BUMP*

Sorry for that, won't happen again

 

[Ferret]

That's a lot.... I can't see big problems with most of them.

I'm not sure that XP (an abstract idea) is the best was to represent stealing energy with Aging Touch, I can't think of a better one that is long term (HP would work but can be easily used up, and is another abstract idea). HD sounds nice but messes up fairness and power, even if it were rationed somehow it would change from 'overpowered' to 'not worth it'. One idea could be to add years to the casters life (living a year longer).

It also seems unlcear with is the action and which is the result. Does the spell give you XP from the creature, thus taking years off the target or vice versa?

Claim Corpse seems restrictive with the wording, can you only stop animation? What about resurection? Any other things that would be blocked?

The rest are nice spells.

 

[Clay_More]

I was thinking when making Aging Touch what a good, permanent reward would be. XP was the only thing I found to be good enough, Ability Scores would be slightly overpowering. The amount of XP you can gain from Aging Touch is slightly limited, in a group of players the caster will often expend more XP on creating magic items or casting XP costing spells. I have another spell that gives a caster the ability to extend his own life span, but normally a player cares little for his lifespan. I knew when writing it that some people would be against a spell giving XP, its not really something that is normal. Thats why I made the gainable amount low and the drain it imposes permanent to really avoid abuse. Of course, the point of the spell is to be abused, but not too greatly.

The Claim Corpse was meant as a simple utility spell, protecting against Ressurection would be far more power. I have a higher level spell, Corpse Gem that dissolves a corpse, transferring it into a gem (so the dead person can not be ressurected without a True Ressurection spell and it becomes easily carriably for the caster).

I wouldn't mind hearing some opinions about the other spells, I know it was a huge load I suddenly posted out of the blue

I am working on a spell-list for an unmentionable book at the moment, so I am trying to come up with ways to make Necromancy more interesting. Many places talk about Necromancy as the "Evil, forbidden lore", but looking merely at the spells no only in the PhB as well as other books, its not really powerful compared to other schools. When I read most definitions of Necromancy, it seems like it should be slightly more powerful than other schools, but also widely mistrusted and disdained. Even Necromancers who focus on neutral or good aspects of it would be persecuted by zealous Paladins or angry lynch-mobs.

I am trying to look for some advantages of using the Tyre creations that aren't as evil as the ones presented here, learning about Anatomy and healing by creating them perhaps. Unfortunately, D&D offers little rules about researching and spending time studying, so this aspect wouldnt be an advantage.

 

[Ferret]

Points taken on Aging touch, I thought as much (maybe slightly less) but I was trying to brainstorm ideas. Points taken on aging touch as well, up to what level spell can it block though?

I new spell for the tyre puppets could be to transpose wounds, or diseases. It seems almost voodoo-ritual like.

 

[Urrdaarka]

I see some very good arguements here for necromancy being considered an non-evil pursuit. However they overlook one thing, in the fantasy world of D&D Good and Evil are real things, not abstract concepts. You may not be able to see Good or Evil, but you can detect them, and to a degree measure them.
Some spells and even some magical items rely on this actual existance of good/evil. Affecting only Good or Evil.
I acknowledge that necromancy could be used for good or neutral ends, but I think that it would slowly corrupt the user, turning them to evil. This is going by the rules as given in the game. If you want to throw out those rules and say the necromancy is not evil, then by all means feel free to.
One concept might be a church/cult that allows their members to bestow their bodies to the church to be raised up after their deaths as unsleeping guardians of the holy? Perhaps some non-evil variants of the more powerful undead might be needed here.