Need advice on playing a beguiler

[Rafael Ceurdepyr]

Sheesh, guys, give it a rest. He didn't ask to be second-guessed about the class choices already made; he's looking for help with what he's got now. So it doesn't do any good to keep harping on how worthless the bard level is.

Thanks, Driddle. You wanna know the basic reason for the bard level? I like to play bards. I also want to try out the beguiler. Simple as that. My DM has assured me that if I don't like it at some point, we can retrain. The campaign we're about to start is all about trying new and different classes, races, rule mechanics, etc., so a lot of it's going to be experimental. My changeling bard/beguiler will go about most of the time as a rilkan. My other PC is a glimmerfolk (from an issue of Dragon) warlock. The other two PCs are a tauran druid and a benrama (race made up by DM) warblade. All classes and races we've never played, in a homebrewed world.

Thanks for all the advice. I'm studying the spells now. And maybe those of you who are counseling against the bard level will turn out to be right, but I plan to try it out first.

 

[Nifft]

Thanks, Driddle. You wanna know the basic reason for the bard level? I like to play bards. I also want to try out the beguiler. Simple as that. My DM has assured me that if I don't like it at some point, we can retrain. The campaign we're about to start is all about trying new and different classes, races, rule mechanics, etc., so a lot of it's going to be experimental.

IMHO this means there's even less reason for the Bard level, though. IMHO you should drop your "comfort" class and dive into the experimental class with both feet -- er, levels. You can always go back and turn him into a Bard if the Beguiler isn't to your liking.

One of the Beguiler's signature class features (Cloaked Casting) starts at 2nd level; Advanced Learning starts at 3rd level, and is a strong ability if you have access to books like the Spell Compendium.

If you make it to 6th level, my favorite Core Enchantment spell to pick up is heroism. Very useful.

Cheers, -- N

 

[roguerouge]

I recommend either downloading the spell cards from the pdf shop or writing up cards for each of your spells. You'll be more likely to REMEMBER that one time you really need it to use the spells on your list that you rarely use.

Gadgets, skill kits, and lots of acids, tanglefoot bags, and alchemist fires, to enable you to do something directly, especially with the alchemist fire and the dreaded swarm, bane of the low level character.

Consider taking Improved Initiative. Some of your class powers will be improved by using your spells on flat footed opponents. And it's much harder to charm someone who's just been assaulted by your friends. Enchanters have GOT to act first or have their ENTIRE party on board.

Consider taking Combat Expertise and Improved Feint. It maximizes your class ability and you'll be spending time in melee to get some of those bonuses. And if you don't take it now, you never will.

Consider whether to take Eschew Materials as a feat. Eventually, you'll have silent and still spell. That means being able to cast undetectable spells! Just think this scenario: You glance across the ball at the princess, bored by her court. You meet her gaze and cast a silent, stilled, no materials Daze spell. You walk over and use your a kickin' bluff and diplomacy scores to sweep her off her feet. You have a few ranks in perform:dance and guide her through the steps. It would make it seem like you two were meant to be together....

 

[sniffles]

I think I'd have to concurr with Nifft - lose the bard level and go straight beguiler. For the same reasons he gave.

I haven't played a beguiler myself, but a close friend has played one twice, in different campaigns. His first beguiler was a spy. She used most of her spells to ferret out information. Sometimes this was for the benefit of the party, sometimes for the benefit of her unknown (to the party) spymaster.

His second beguiler, still in play, basically uses his spells to get others to do things for him. He's lazy and would rather not do for himself what he can have someone else do under a magical compulsion. He recruited a henchman for our party by hypnotizing a low-intelligence fighter repeatedly.

His usual practice in combat is to try to charm an opponent and take them out of the fight. If that doesn't work he usually sticks with spells that will take combatants out without doing actual damage: granting everyone else concealment (net of shadows from the Spell Compendium, which he took with his ability to add new spells to his spell list), dazing his opponent, using ghost sound to distract, or limiting opponents' ability to act (halt, hesitate). He also uses expeditious retreat to dart around a lot. Improved Initiative would help out with all of these, I think.

Basically I see a beguiler as like a rogue, but without all the physical skills. More of a con-man than a pickpocket or second-story man.

 

[NilesB]

Ten skill points gets you a rank in each knowledge skill, that should do much the same for you as first level bardic knowledge, and it's improvable.

What does the rest of the party look like?

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

hmm

Well, a beguiler is like a creepy bard, kindof.

So, since you want to play both, first play a bard to level 6 or so, then get the GM to have some creepy in-game story event that transforms your character into a beguiler, robbing him forever of the ability to sing. Then, use the retraining rules to remake the character as a level 6 beguiler.


That way, you get to play both, you have a cool in-game transition, and you're being fairer to the rest of the party than if you totally gimp your character and expect them to adventure with you.

Ken

 

[JustKim]

While I don't feel compelled to make you change your character build, there are a couple of problems I think you should be aware of. One is that it has never been substantiated that the legion of sentinels spell does anything whatsoever, and trying to use it will almost certainly grind the game to a halt. The other is that where you might expect to find the beguiler spell list in the book, you will find only a partial list. The full list is snuck into page 11 with the sample character where nobody is likely to read it.

I've seen beguilers in play at various levels, and some spell favorites have been the whelm series and greater mirror image. Dealing nonlethal damage is actually a blessing when at the end of the battle, someone makes the observation in hindsight that it might have been useful to leave one of the mooks alive.

To make your bardic knowledge skill a little better, you might want to take 5 ranks in knowledge (history) and check out the headband of the lorebinder on page 110 of the Magic Item Compendium. It grants a +4 bonus to bardic knowledge checks and lets you read magic sometimes, I guess, if reading wizards' diaries and triggering magical traps is what you're into.

 

[szilard]

While I don't feel compelled to make you change your character build, there are a couple of problems I think you should be aware of. One is that it has never been substantiated that the legion of sentinels spell does anything whatsoever, and trying to use it will almost certainly grind the game to a halt.

ummm...

Page 116 – Legion of Sentinels
[Omission]
Should include the following text at the end of its
description: “The swordsmen’s attacks are at a
bonus equal to your caster level, they threaten
critical hits on a 19 or 20, and they deal 1d8 points
of slashing damage with a +1 bonus per three caster
levels (max +5). They only make attacks of
opportunity, and their weapon damage is slashing
and is affected by damage reduction.”

 

[JustKim]

ummm...

Aha! After long months of waiting for errata I admit that I stopped checking, my bad.